I Loved this account of your adventures. I am not sure what was accomplished but it was very interesting. My heart got best fast just reading it I found it so exciting.
I remember when I was a dub that I was so blind that I would just look away when I saw the apostates outside the gates of the convention. I really tried to be a good witness. I have never been so proud about failing at something as I am of that failure :-)
PS Next year MAKE SURE you have a permit! LOL
Posts by NikL
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64Convention Apostatizing Brings Gestapo Response
by outnfree inmy flyers merely said: if as a jehovahs witness, a member of your family has been molested information is available for further information see: www.silentlambs.org or call 1-877-wtabuse.. nothing overtly inflammatory, actually more like a public service announcement.. i guess thats what most of the local organizers and friends thought in my neck of the, woods for the first two days of the district convention!
but once the 'friends' realized that the website i was promoting with my flyers and moving car billboard was not an approved wt site, the powers that be got ... well ... pissed is the word!.
nobody bothered me on friday as i went smiling about my posting flyers on the light and utility poles on the routes to/from the convention site.
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NikL
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I want to see my records
by NikL ini have been thinking about this for a while now.. when i was a faithful dub back in the 80s i know they had records on all members.
anything you did, be it field service hours or judgements against you for wrong doing went into this record.. i remember i asked an elder if i could see mine sometime and was told that it was not allowed.
i remember it bothered me at the time but as dubs will always do, i forced the issue out of my mind(mostly anyway).. now, i am wondering, is it legal for them to maintain records about me or anyone else and not share them with that person?
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NikL
I have been thinking about this for a while now.
When I was a faithful dub back in the 80s I know they had records on all members. Anything you did, be it field service hours or judgements against you for wrong doing went into this record.
I remember I asked an elder if I could see mine sometime and was told that it was not allowed. I remember it bothered me at the time but as dubs will always do, I forced the issue out of my mind(mostly anyway).
Now, I am wondering, is it legal for them to maintain records about me or anyone else and not share them with that person? Is there someone on this board familliar with law who might have some ideas?
I want to see my record damn it! -
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Notes from 2001 District Conv.---Friday
by LostMyReligion inhere are a few notes i took at the friday session of the 2001 "teachers of god's word" district convention.
i thought i would share these upbuilding theocratic point with my new friends, along with my thoughts as i was listening to the program.
1st instruction of the day: sing loudly and listen to the prayer!
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NikL
Thank you thank you thank you!
My wife is attending the indoctinational session as well. She is actually riding a bus with our 8 year old son 3 hours each way to go listen to this crap.
Anyway, through you I can get a gist of the drivel she is hearing.
Thanks again and keep up the good work. -
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NikL
I did not write this I wish I did because I would be proud.
I stumbled apon this little gem while going through some documents. I liked it so much I saved it. I am not sure where I found it but I thought there may be some here who don't remember reading it and it is really good :-) Whoever origionally composed this, Kudos!
Enjoy...If Witnesses Had To Be Completely Honest For One Day of Field Service
Imagine how field service would be different if Jehovah?s Witnesses had to drop the facade of ?we just want to talk to people? and instead were completely honest and candid about their
doctrines and beliefs. A typical conversation in the ministry might go something like this.*knock knock*
Householder: Hello?
Witness: Hi. My name is Brother Zealous and I?m here to offer you these magazines giving you a hope for the new world.
Householder: I have my own religion, thank you very much.
Witness: Oh ... ah-hem ... well, I?m glad to hear that.
Householder: You are?
Witness: Oh yes, you see, we talk to people of all religions.
Householder: Obviously. But aren?t you here to convert me or something?
Witness: Well ... yes, that too.
Householder: I?m pretty happy with my religion, though. Why should I convert?
Witness: Well, we have the one and only true religion. Your religion is false.
Householder: False? But you don?t even know what I believe!
Witness: Doesn?t matter ? whatever it is, it?s sure to be false. And even if we agree on 99.9% of the Bible, you?re still in grave danger.
Householder: Why am I in danger?
Witness: Well, God?s going to kill you. And ... well, I can see from the toys in your yard that you have children. Am I right?
Householder: Yes.
Witness: Well, God?s going to kill them, too. And it?ll be your fault. There. You?ve been warned. I?ve just discharged my own responsibility, so the bloodguilt is yours now. When God kills
your kids, it?ll be all your fault. So you better take these magazines.Householder: But we pray to God every night. We even pray together, as a family! My wife and my daughter and I kneel every evening before we tuck her in, and she folds her hands and
prays for us and for her dolls and for Rover, her puppy ...Witness: That?s cute and all, but I?m afraid it isn?t enough.
Householder: So my daughter ...
Witness: Dead.
Householder: And my wife ...
Witness: Dead ...
Householder: What about Rover?
Witness: Dead. Dead dead dead dead dead. Look, are you going to take the magazines or not?
Householder: Well, wait a minute. Before I take them, how do I know for certain that YOU have the right religion?
Witness: I suppose that?s a fair question. Well, our religion is the true religion because the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society says that we are.
Householder: So, you?re saying that you have the right religion because your religion says you have the right religion?
Witness: Well, yeah.
Householder: That doesn?t sound very convincing.
Witness: You must have misunderstood me. You see, only we have the unique beliefs that reflect the truth about the Bible.
Householder: So, you have the true religion because of your beliefs?
Witness: You betcha.
Householder: Well, that?s circular reasoning. Saying that Witnesses have the right religion because only they have the particular beliefs that they have is ? well, it?s the same as saying that
Witnesses have the right religion because they?re Witnesses.Witness: Are you an apostate?
Householder: A what?
Witness: Never mind. You were starting to confuse me for a second, so I thought you might be an evil apostate. But I understand what the problem is now. You see, the ?truth? of our
religion is self-evident in our beliefs. All you have to do is look at our beliefs and you can tell that only we are following the Bible in the way that God wants.Householder: Interesting. You know, I knew a Witness in high school. She didn?t celebrate anything, not even birthdays. Is that one of your beliefs?
Witness: Right. God hates birthdays.
Householder: Well, let?s take that. Why don?t you celebrate birthdays?
Witness: There are two birthdays recorded in the bible, and in each of them someone gets his head chopped off. Everything in the bible is written for our instruction, so obviously God hates
birthdays.Householder: Heads chopped off?
Witness: Yep.
Householder: My daughter?s birthday was last week, and I swear to you that absolutely no one was decapitated. In fact, in all the birthdays I?ve celebrated in my life, no one even got a little
bit hurt.Witness: Still, it?s a matter of principle. You don?t want to be supporting something God hates.
Householder: But didn?t Job celebrate his children?s ?special days?? And wasn?t Job a righteous man?
Witness: Er, well ... um, you see, I guess you can?t prove that the ?special days? were birthdays. I mean, maybe they were just ?fun days,? heh heh ... you know, just friendly family
get-togethers ...Householder: You don?t sound very convinced. But heck ? even if you?re right, isn?t it true that God directed the magi to Bethlehem, where they gave gifts to Jesus on the day of his birth?
Witness: Um, yes, that?s true.
Householder: So there are more that two birthdays in the bible, right? It seems to me that there are about a dozen birthdays in the bible. Heads got cut off at only two of them. Perhaps the
real lesson is that we shouldn?t go chopping each other?s heads off at birthdays?Witness: Well, perhaps, but birthdays are also pagan in origin ...
Householder: Really? I didn?t know that. What?s the pagan origin, anyway?
Witness: Er, well, I used to know. I have this book that explains all this stuff ... [reaches into bookbag for Reasoning Book]
Householder: Wait a minute! You mean you don?t even know the reason you don?t celebrate birthdays? You can?t even remember the pagan origins? I?m sorry, but that?s pretty weak.
Witness: Well, that stuff doesn?t really matter. Jehovah has seen fit to direct his Faithful and Discreet Slave to give us these rules. We don?t question that.
Householder: So God himself directs your religious doctrine?
Witness: Yep! See, that?s why we?re the one true religion.
Householder: Right, right. But let me ask you, has your religion always had these strict beliefs? I mean, were you always restricted from holidays and celebrations and so forth?
Witness: Um, no. The light gets brighter and brighter as we get closer to Armageddon, which is when God?s going to kill you and your family. We keep refining our beliefs. We?re a
?progressive? organization, see.Householder: You?re a progressive organization?
Witness: Oh yes. Unlike the stubborn false religions of Babylon the Great, we?re not afraid to adjust our thinking according to the times.
Householder: So, if you?re progressive, I suppose your religion has charities for orphans and widows, meetings for alcoholic members, support groups for those with disabilities, an outreach
program for troubled teens, a policy of acceptance toward gays ...Witness: Hey ? hold on there! No, none of that. Especially the gay part. They have to be quiet and wait for God to fix them. Of course, we don?t hate them. We sort of think of them as
diseased people that need to be cured of a perversity we?d rather not know about.Householder: That doesn?t sound very ?progressive? to me. What about those in poverty? How does your religion take care of them?
Witness: We don?t have specific arrangements for giving charity to our own members.
Householder: What about orphans, widows, single mothers?
Witness: Well, if they?re at every meeting and comment a lot at the meetings and get well over the national average, well, then maybe we?ll have a get-together for them. You know, invite
them over to study the Watchtower with us. But, I mean, there?s welfare and other social services for people like that.Householder: Which is funded by the government.
Witness: Er, yeah.
Householder: Which your God Jehovah is going to destroy.
Witness: Yeah, um, that?s right.
Householder: Well, you must have special programs and meetings to help troubled teens, domestic problems, alcohol abuse, that sort of thing.
Witness: No. We deny that these problems exist within the brotherhood. And anyone who has a serious problem must not be studying the Watchtower enough ? they?re spiritually weak and
we should avoid them.Householder: I don?t understand. How can you help people with problems if you avoid them? This doesn?t make a lot of sense.
Witness: See, that?s why you need these magazines. They explain everything! Let me show you ... look, see how there are all these scriptures in parentheses? You can follow along, even in
your own inferior translation of the Bible.Householder: This one paragraph lists scriptures from Ezekiel, Proverbs, Matthew, Galatians, and Revelation.
Witness: Yes! Our religion makes the most sense if you take all the verses out of context and paste them together. Reading the Bible this way reveals the ultimate fulfillment of Bible
prophecy that only Witnesses understand.Householder: So the particular historical, political, and cultural context of the scripture is irrelevant?
Witness: If you want to read the bible that way, you can ? it?s interesting and all ? but you won?t understand the deeper truths. You won?t be able to prepare yourself for Armageddon, either.
Householder: So we?re pretty close to Armageddon, huh?
Witness: That?s right. You?d better take these magazines.
Householder: You don?t happen to have any insight into how soon until the, um, ?end,? do you? I mean, are we talking weeks, months, years, or what?
Witness: We don?t predict anymore ? that would be arrogant. Acts 1:9 says that no one knows the hour or season of God?s plan. So, we don?t know when the end will come.
Householder: You don?t predict ?anymore??
Witness: Er ... well ... no.
Householder: So Jehovah?s Witnesses have predicted the end of the world before?
Witness: Damn it! Are you sure you?re not an apostate?
Householder: I?m just curious. If I?m going to convert to your religion, I think I should know something about its history first.
Witness: Well, we used to say that the end would come in 1914. Then we said it would come in 1916. Then we said it would come in 1918. Then 1925 ? that was a big one. Then 1941 or
1942. Then we said it would come in 1975. Then we said it would come before the generation of 1914 passed away, with a generation being the equivalent of no more than 80 years. But in
1995 someone looked up ?generation? in a dictionary and we decided that wasn?t true. We even said, sort of by accident, that it would come before the end of the twentieth century.Householder: Happy new millennium.
Witness: Uh, yeah. In any event, it?s coming very, very soon. Any day now. It won?t delay. Honest. We mean it.
Householder: Right. Um, look ? I?m not the greatest Bible scholar, but isn?t there a scripture where Jesus warned his followers to look out for false prophets? And doesn?t the Bible also warn
that false prophets will, like, die or something?Witness: Well, the bible does say that. But it doesn?t apply to us.
Householder: Why not?
Witness: Because we?re not prophets.
Householder: But don?t you preach the predictions of your religion, whatever they are, as printed in the magazine you?re showing me here?
Witness: That?s right. But it?s not a big deal. You see, sometimes, in our enthusiasm, imperfect men among us have leaped ahead of Jehovah and made mistakes.
Householder: But you said that God himself directs your doctrine!
Witness: That?s right.
Householder: How does that make sense?
Witness: It makes sense because we have the truth!
Householder: The truth about what?
Witness: Er, well, that is ... obviously you are an apostate, and I?m hear to reason with you, not the other way around, and, um, my car group is waiting, and, er, well, have a nice day. I will
shake the dust from my feet as I climb into my Presiding Overseer?s minivan.Householder: Whatever.
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I Learned Something New!!!
by NikL inwell i did indeed learn something new from the public talk last sunday.
while drifting in and out of consciousness, hoping for time to quickly pass, i picked up on a very important point.
the words being spoken from the monotone bore machine at the podium had lulled me into a lethargic semi comatose state when all of a sudden one sentence cut through the fog like a hot knife cuts through butter.. he said "the moon is our closest planet".
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NikL
Well I did indeed learn something new from the public talk last Sunday. While drifting in and out of consciousness, hoping for time to quickly pass, I picked up on a very important point.
The words being spoken from the monotone bore machine at the podium had lulled me into a lethargic semi comatose state when all of a sudden one sentence cut through the fog like a hot knife cuts through butter.
He said "The moon is our closest planet". The moon is a planet? Hmmm, I always thought the moon was...well...a moon. I guess this is some of that infamous light getting brighter. Just think, perhaps the sun is a rock and not a star. Maybe the sun revolves around Brooklyn. It could be that the dark side of the moon is actually the one with the illumination. The possibilities are endless!
I can't wait 'till I knock on my first door Saturday morning and wake someone up to share this good news…or maybe when it comes to scientific knowledge the JWs are stuck on the dark side of the moon. -
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Another JW fantasy
by NikL incontrairy to popular belief, jws have fantasies.
wheras mine usually involve a wild night of passion, jw fantasies seem to involve something else.
read the following e mail and see what i mean.... dear joe, .
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NikL
Contrairy to popular belief, JWs have fantasies. Wheras mine usually involve a wild night of passion, JW fantasies seem to involve something else. Read the following e mail and see what I mean...
Dear Joe,
I am very blessed ...yet for some reason I wake up crying every morning. I
have a Sister back east that lives in chaos ALL the time and to get through
it she highly depends on Jehovah. She is so encouraging to me! The other day
she typed me an e-mail that was made to sound as if Armageddon was now over
and we were feeling the effects of the 'New System'!! I got chills down my
spine when I read it!!! And although I cried yet even more, they were now
tears of joy!!! I wanted to share the E-mail she sent me with you all, if at
all possible. : ) [email protected]DEAR SISSY POO.. I WOKE UP THIS MORNING HUMMING A BEAUTIFUL TUNE. [LIFE
WITHOUT END AT LAST!!] I HAD THIS DISTANT THOUGHT ABOUT A TUNE WE USED TO
KNOW IN THAT OLD WORLD. 'TURN ME LOOSE' BY THE JUDDS. HAHAH!! WHY THAT SONG
CAME IN MY MIND I DON'T KNOW, BUT I NOTICE LATELY I'M STARTING TO FORGET A
LOT OF THE EMOTIONAL PAIN BACK THERE!!! I WOKE UP TODAY, AND THE FIRST
THING I NOTICED WAS CLEAR SKIN!!! NO MORE PSORIASIS !! MY FACE IS CLEAR
ALSO, I CRIED AGAIN WHEN I LOOKED IN THE MIRROR TODAY, SOMETHING I USED TO
DREAD IN THE OLD WORLD. MY HAIR IS LONG AND DARK, AND THICK AGAIN!!!
MY EYES ARE NO LONGER OLD, AND PUFFY WITH AGE!!! I'M A SIZE SIX
AGAIN!!! NEVER WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THOSE OLD HIPS COULD BE REPAIRED!!! HA!
HA! I FEEL GREAT!!!! I LOVE THIS NEW HOUSE I BUILT WITH THE HELP OF THE
FRIENDS!! THE ARCHITECTS HERE ARE PERFECT!!!HA HA. HEY SIS, WHEN YOU GET UP,
WE CAN TAKE A SWIM IN THAT BEAUTIFUL BLUE LAKE ACROSS THE WAY!! ON THE WAY
WE CAN SMELL THE SCENTS OF ALL THOSE BEAUTIFUL FLOWERS, AND SHRUBBERY!!!
GOSH!!! YOU WALK OUTSIDE HERE, AND IT'S BEYOND ANYTHING WE EVER SAW IN
THE OLD WORLD!!! DID YOU NOTICE THE FRUIT HERE??? I NEVER IMAGINED A PEAR
COULD LOOK THAT BEAUTIFUL, AND TASTE THAT GOOD, DID YOU!!! ALL THE FOOD HERE
IS TOO GOOD!!!!! SISSY, ISN'T IT GREAT TO EAT ALL WE WANT, AND NEVER GAIN A
POUND!!!! I WONDER WHO IS ON THE RESURRECTION LIST TODAY!!!! DO YOU WANT TO
COME WITH ME TO CHECK? I CRY EVERY TIME I WATCH OTHERS WELCOME THEY'RE DEAD
BACK!!! THERE'S SO MUCH JOY AND PEACE HERE!!! NO BAD PEOPLE HERE TO SPOIL OUR
DAYS. I'M NOT AFRAID LIKE I USED TO BE. GET THAT BEAUTIFUL SWIMSUIT ON THAT
SISTER SEAMSTRESS MADE YOU, AND LET'S GO FOR A SWIM~~~ I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE
NICE IF YOU AND I GOT DOWN ON OUR KNEES TOGETHER TODAY, IN THE GARDEN IN THE
BACK, AND TELL JEHOVAH HOW MUCH WE LOVE HIM, AND HOW THANKFUL AND GRATEFUL WE
ARE FOR BEING PRIVILEGED ENOUGH TO BE HERE!!!! TELL ME WHAT YOU ARE THINKING
ABOUT ALL THIS! WE CAN TAKE THOSE 2 LITTLE PRECIOUS LION CUBS FOR A WALK
TONIGHT IF YOU WANT TO !!! SEE YA SOON!! P.S. DON'T TELL ME YOU DON'T HAVE
THE TIME, BECAUSE YOU HAVE ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD NOW!!! HAHA LOVE..
SISSYPOO -
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Things That NEVER Made Sense To Me:
by Englishman ineven when i was a dyed in the wool jw, there were a few things that never made any sense whatsoever to me.
like most dubs, i glossed over them, here's my top 3 doubts during my period of dubdom, doubts that were never resolved:.
"all scripture is inspired of god and beneficial for teaching".
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NikL
Since we are talking of things that made no sence...how about the whole living forever thing in general. Okay life is great and life in a perfect world may or may not be too bad...for the first 150,000 years. It seems that after some time we would stop growing as individuals and would eventually get bored out of our skulls. Sounds more like hell to me. It did then and it does now.
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New field service tactics!
by NikL innew regular pioneer techniques .
these are untried and untested techniques to get .
they're called goats in the bible.
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NikL
I am not sure if Stephanus took it serious or not. Jeeze I hope not.
The funniest part of all this is that my good lil JW wife was sent this in an e mail. This is REALLY what the lovable Dubs think as they pound on your door.
Kind of pathetic when you get right down to it. -
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New field service tactics!
by NikL innew regular pioneer techniques .
these are untried and untested techniques to get .
they're called goats in the bible.
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NikL
NEW REGULAR PIONEER TECHNIQUES
These are untried and untested techniques to get
around conversation stoppers. Just think, Soon
we'll all be ready for summer!I hope you find some benefit with these:
(1)"I'm not interested."
I say: "Well, many feel the same way. And
they're called goats in the Bible. Let me share with
you a scripture that talks about the fate of those
goats. (Read Matthew 25:46) Do you want to get cut
off?"(2)"I have my own religion."
I say: "Yeah... and I have MY own religion too.
See, I'm what you call a "Christian". (Make sure to
bob your index and middle fingers in the air when
saying "Christian". It makes them feel stupid.) You
know what "Christians" do? They "preach" to people.
Those that don't preach" to people are called "goats"
in the Bible. Do you want to know what happens to
"goats"?" Then,you know what to do from there.(3)"I'm too busy."
I say: "No you're not. You were probably in
there watching TV or something. Don't lie to me. You
know who the father of the lie is? It's Satan. Is he
your daddy? Well... I think he is!"(4)"I'll read your literature if you'll read
mine."I say: "Hey. This isn't a hostage negotiation
here. I'm here to preach to YOU. Now, if you want to
preach to ME, you'll have to get up off YOUR lazy
bottom, and come knock on MY door on a Saturday
morning. But don't bother, because I'm NOT INTERESTED
in your beliefs, because I HAVE MY OWN RELIGION, and
I'M TOO BUSY in the work of the Lord to READ YOUR
LITERATURE IF YOU'LL READ MINE!" Then, slam THEIR door
in THEIR face.OKAY!!!!!!! So who's ready for service?
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COPYRIGHTS and the WTS publications
by MacHislopp ini was wondering about this part written in the.
w. 15.02.2001 page 29 (box) :.
...related to this, christian should avoid putting onto, or downloading.
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NikL
Hi MacHislopp,
I raised the issue of copywright years ago when I was a faithful dub and they started to release videos. I couldn't understand why they were againsed someone copying them so everyone could see them. At the time they were expensive. They released them with a talk at the cong. complete with a warning NOT to copy them. I asked the elder who gave the talk why and he told me "because the society says so".
I venture that they wont be able to do much. If they make too big a fus it may get lots of attention and it would look really bad to the public.
Just my thoughts,
Nick
(of the copyright infringing class)