Posts by ShadesofGrey

138

Ray Franz.....LIAR?

by integ in

one of my witness family members agreed to take a look at crisis of conscience, and after.

perusing the first couple of chapters, said that she thought it could be all made up.

agreed that the documents presented could be legitimate, but as far as franz's personal.

ShadesofGrey

I had a very hard time reading Ray's book as well, and I feel that most of it was not beneficial to me, as I had already decided that the organization was evil.

Just to include an answer to the OP:

The Watchtower publications actually tell them to get out of the organization, using quotes from those same publications. There are books that help you show them this. The first is Who is the Faithful and wise Servant by Duane Magnani. It has quotes like "Putting forth the effort to locate that older publication and then studying the pages referred to." WT 6/15/85, p. 12. "It is obvious that the God of truth will not look with favor on persons who cling to organizations that teach falsehoood. Would you really want to be associated with a religious organization that had not been honest with you?" Is this life all there is? 1974, p. 46 "Is religious history of any benefit?" "This information has helped many people identify Christs true followers today." WT 9/15/87 p. 30 You can imagine the types of quotes found in that history. Combine this with How to Rescue your Loved One from the Watchtower which shows how they have changed doctrines back and forth and condemned those who didn't change with them, and really exposes them as men making guesses rather than having God's Spirit, even exposing them for the bloodguilt of condemning medical procedures that were later allowed, all with quotes from the publications made available through the organization itself.

May God be with all of you in this endeavor,

SOG

45

How to convince someone to question the authority of the WT

by LanaMich19 in

jw
friends

i have someone in my family that is a jw and she has engaged me in conversation.

for the record, i consider myself an evangelical christian.

after some debate and research, i backed out of a verse by verse debate and switched the convo to get on some common ground, asking if she believe the bible was the inspired word of god.

ShadesofGrey

Lana, I sent you a PM.

45

How to convince someone to question the authority of the WT

by LanaMich19 in

jw
friends

i have someone in my family that is a jw and she has engaged me in conversation.

for the record, i consider myself an evangelical christian.

after some debate and research, i backed out of a verse by verse debate and switched the convo to get on some common ground, asking if she believe the bible was the inspired word of god.

ShadesofGrey

Good points Band. We mustn't get impatient to "win". This person is in God's hands and his love, mercy, justice and timing are perfect.

Lana, Many JWs will "reason" there way through the Bible, trying to make God's Word and God himself "logical", and have an air of intellectual superiority over Christians, thinking that Christian doctrine just doesn't make sense. That is why a JW takes one small step at a time, and they must realize that God is a spirit. What does that mean? To worship in Spirit? After accepting Christ I understood when I read Romans chapter 8 and the book of 1 John. Oh, and I had to read them in an easier translation. The Bible the JWs use, the New World Translation, turns it all to gobbly gook. I get so frustrated. I will understand something so clearly, go to show it to my husband in his NWT and it makes no sense!!!

Here is another link that you might be encouraged by:

http://www.bwce.org/church_ministry.html

Your Sister, SOG

1495

An Old Argument.... does it hold water?

by AK - Jeff in

estimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.

that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.

still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.

ShadesofGrey

Like

45

How to convince someone to question the authority of the WT

by LanaMich19 in

jw
friends

i have someone in my family that is a jw and she has engaged me in conversation.

for the record, i consider myself an evangelical christian.

after some debate and research, i backed out of a verse by verse debate and switched the convo to get on some common ground, asking if she believe the bible was the inspired word of god.

ShadesofGrey

http://4witness.org/jehovahs_witness/jw_witness.php

Very helpful link!

What happened for me in a nutshell, was that I didn't understand how the WT taught Old Earth and creation. I wanted my kids to not be confused about that so I did some research on evolution, old earth, and young earth. In the process I read Creation.com magazine and several books by Michael Oard. I am now more Young Earth Creationist than any other group, though my beliefs don't fit in a box. I began to see that these Christians were bringing glory to God and turning atheists into believers. Surely God doesn't have just one approved religion, the Jehovah's Witnesses, whose evolution materials are so inferior as to be laughable... so I became open to the idea that Christians could be God's people and I was no longer afraid of them.

I was not attending meetings and so my mom was reallly trying to convince me to come back. I decide to try and pick up a Watchtower. The article was comparing our loyalty/obedience to the "faithful and discreet slave" as the Israelites loyalty/obedience to Moses. Moses? Who replaced Moses? I asked a pastor I knew from a facebook creation page. Does a man or group of men lead God's people today? His answer was only Jesus Christ leads God's people today. I knew from my study of the scriptures that Jesus is the one mediator between God and men. I also knew that Jesus is called the Greater Moses. The "faithful and dicreet slave" were trying to take Jesus' position!!! I threw the WT away in anger and vowed to never listen to men again. I would only listen to Christ.

From that moment on my life changed. I became joyful and free. I understood unconditional love for the first time in my life. I was more patient. I started singing as I went about the house. My heart was singing with the Spirit of Christ. I started studying my Bible and simply taking God at his word as the Young Earth Creationism teaches me to do. Wow. I can understand it now! I started looking at Christian websites to get answers to questions and they agreed with what I was learning.I read 1 John in the Living Bible and immediately accepted the Godhead. I understood that God can be three different people and also in all of our hearts. He is an all-powerful spirit!

The persecution started, even though as far as my friends and family knew, nothing had changed. They sent me emails warning that my children and I would die in the Great Tribulation. My best friend walked out on me, calling me stiff-necked and proud, which couldn't be further from the truth. When I asked her to open her Bible she refused! But, something else happened too... my prayers were answered. Really answered. Obviously, immediately. Praise God for his loyalty!

Love, Joy, Peace,

SOG

21

I need an operation very soon ...

by troubled mind in

ShadesofGrey

Try www.tapping.com for your anxiety. "even though I am worried about this surgery" ,"even though I hate being helpless when I am under", "even though anxiety is causing my blood pressure to go up", etc.

You can also visualize the tapping when you aren't able to actually tap.

1495

An Old Argument.... does it hold water?

by AK - Jeff in

estimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.

that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.

still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.

ShadesofGrey

Tammy,....I must say that I see more "God" in you, then "god" himself/itself

Yes, of course you do. She has God living in her heart. The same God that you could decide to ask into your heart.

1495

An Old Argument.... does it hold water?

by AK - Jeff in

estimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.

that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.

still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.

ShadesofGrey

All things NOT of love and goodness, comes from us(humanity), even natural disasters and chronic illness.

I stopped reading here and wanted to comment, I hope that is okay. This scripture is often ignored:

Hebrews 2:14 "that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and might free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives. "

This points to the cause of our troubles, not ourselves, but the Devil, and this point is repeatedly made clear in the little I have learned of the Eastern Orthodox faith.

Love, SOG

81

Have You Ever Feared Being Outed On This Site?

by minimus in

jw
friends

or do you not care at all?.

ShadesofGrey

Hi Nancy, I tried to comment on your blog. I would recommend that you do not use the NWT for your personal study or when quoting scripture.

"taking in knowledge" does not lead to everlasting life. John 17:3 was mistranslated. Can you see the difference?

"This means eternal life, their knowing you, the only true God and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ."

"I never knew you, you workers of lawlessness."

"and he knew her not until she gave birth to a son"-- Matthew 1:25

Knowing God is very different than taking in knowledge. The watchtower changed this scripture in order to support their works based salvation.

John 5:39“You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me! 40Yet you refuse to come to me to receive this life."

45

How to convince someone to question the authority of the WT

by LanaMich19 in

jw
friends

i have someone in my family that is a jw and she has engaged me in conversation.

for the record, i consider myself an evangelical christian.

after some debate and research, i backed out of a verse by verse debate and switched the convo to get on some common ground, asking if she believe the bible was the inspired word of god.

ShadesofGrey

I absolutely believe that it is possible to help your loved one. Jesus rescued me from the organization when I realized that He was not my mediator.

Get the book by Steven Hassan along with David Reed's http://www.amazon.com/How-Rescue-Your-Loved-Watchtower/dp/0801077524

The first thing I realized, actually, was that Jesus promised to save me from the tribulation! All JWs are scared to death of the great tribulation and armageddon, so I would start there. It took me years from that point to actually realize that the JWs did not have the truth at all.

I think that getting JWs to realize that Jesus is not their mediator is very important, once I accepted that Jesus was my only mediator He was there to help me and everything else fell into place.

The doctrine of the 144,000 anointed ones is another to tackle. Along with those, they need to realize that as Christians we already have eternal life. We don't have to endure test after test. JWs have also been taught about a paradise earth, so that needs to be explained.If you read Revelation 21:1-4 and take God at his word, then heaven and earth will be one!

Pray about which of these points might reach her the most. Also remember that we are engaged in a spiritual battle, so pray that the scales be removed from her eyes, and her spirit of oppression lifted.

Most JWs have to have the contradictions in their literature shown to them, not just scriptures.

I will be following this thread, dear one, and will continue to post as I find things that will help. I don't know how to send privately?

Your sister in Christ,

SOG