Norm

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Posts by Norm

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  29

  Norway

  by InquiryMan in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in norway, the ombudsman of children s welfare intervened and a lot of fuss were made when it was made clear that jws endorsed corporal punishment in their publications even though it was banned by law.

  it was even mentioned in the national news.

  the coordinator was even interviewed on tv and the day after it was proven from the wt indexes that he had been lying.... i remember it was very embarrassing.

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  Norm

  It is many pages and in Norwegian. If you would like to have copies just send a message to my account here and we can arrange for you have the material. If you want to call me the numer is: 22 29 03 56 Norm
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  29

  Norway

  by InquiryMan in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in norway, the ombudsman of children s welfare intervened and a lot of fuss were made when it was made clear that jws endorsed corporal punishment in their publications even though it was banned by law.

  it was even mentioned in the national news.

  the coordinator was even interviewed on tv and the day after it was proven from the wt indexes that he had been lying.... i remember it was very embarrassing.

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  Norm

  I remeber there was a lot of spanking of children in my cong in those days. We could all hear the crying and screaming from the "rest" area. Poor kids was bored out of their skulls as was the adults by the hopeless tripe that was "served" at these meetings.

  Year in and year out with the same mind numbing hogwash and hopeless twaddle, Regurgitated self deafeting constradictory tosh.
  It is a miracle one stayed sane.

  On a different note I remember with great joy is some years later when the Watchtower magazine was about to finally kill the 1914 generation. We got hold of what was coming thanks to our contacts in the US and got the news of the changed doctrine in the largest Norwegian braodsheet Aftenposten. That had Brooklyn and the Norwegian Branch office really frustrated. Here was a "change" they were planning to smuggle in under the radar of the rank and file idiots, but that was impossible when the Aftemposten just explained what a momentous flip flop it really was. I know for a fact that Rolf Furuli was fuming at the editors office the next day and he arranged for i campaign of unsubscription of the Aftenposten among Witnesses in Oslo. That was really funny.

  Norm
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  29

  Norway

  by InquiryMan in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in norway, the ombudsman of children s welfare intervened and a lot of fuss were made when it was made clear that jws endorsed corporal punishment in their publications even though it was banned by law.

  it was even mentioned in the national news.

  the coordinator was even interviewed on tv and the day after it was proven from the wt indexes that he had been lying.... i remember it was very embarrassing.

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  Norm

  I know the story quite well. This happened in 1989, the year after I said farewell to the Watchtower Society. We were a little group of ex-Jehovah's Witnesses which took it upon us to inform the authorities about Jehovah's Witnesses and among them we drew to the attention of the children’s “Ombudsmann” at the time Trond Viggo Torgersen that Jehovah's Witnesses and their literature was violating Norwegian law. We also informed other authorities about other shadowy sides of the Watchtower Society. The child ombudsman was very interested and he quickly understood the whole matter due to the extremely well documented material we provided him with. After I and others appeared on national radio in a daily news show called “Here and Now” and talked about this illegal practice among the witnesses it was finally picked up by television in a program called “Antenna 10”
  This set the Watchtower Society branch office completely in uproar and they went ape shit. I have in my possession the entire complaint they filed to the NRK, the national broadcasting company in Norway, quite funny and interesting and as usual full of weasel worded sentences and lies.

  In those days the Watchtower branch office was lead by a committee and their spokesman was a certain Thor Samuelsen, a thoroughly slimy specimen of a revolting nature. The Watchtower Society was dumb enough to send him to the “Antenna 10” show where he came across exactly as the liar he is. He of course lied through his teeth when asked if Jehovah's Witnesses did beat or spanked their children. And this had a strange effect really as all the Jehovah's Witnesses watching also knew very well he lied, in fact his lies really upset many of them. This was about mid week and on the national news the following weekend he was actually called a liar as we had provided the TV journalists with even more solid documentation from the Watchtower magazine with a nice little drawing of a man spanking a child, with a rather incriminating caption. It is rather rare that anyone is actually called a liar on national TV but the Watchtower spokesman managed to do it. He was never ever used in that capacity again. He has much the same problem as the current US President as he is unable to stop smirking or leering when he is talking about serious matters.

  I still have the press release from the Ombudsmann and also a letter from the Norwegian branch office to all the congregations and a letter written to the Norwegian national TV corporation, where they try to do damage control. Nothing however helped and they suffered an enormous loss of face. Yup, thanks for the trip down memory lane.

  Norm
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  59

  Living Alone - Love it or Loathe it?

  by Crumpet in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  well i have been living alone now for a week for the first time in about 6 years and apart from one or two minor episodes i am really really enjoying the freedom of it.

  i feel like a weight has been lifted.

  i feel free again - a tiny bit lonely at night - but mostly i think i've recaptured that long lost spring in my step.

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  Norm

  Well, Crumpet, it's a forest in the outskirts of Oslo. Only 20 minutes from downtown. I have pictures if you are interested.
  I think it is very considerate of you not to discriminate against age in you flirting. You do deserve a lot of credit for that.
  Anyway age isn't what it used to be. As Mae West used to say, When I am good I am good, when I'm bad I'm better.

  Winketywink.

  Norm
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  59

  Living Alone - Love it or Loathe it?

  by Crumpet in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  well i have been living alone now for a week for the first time in about 6 years and apart from one or two minor episodes i am really really enjoying the freedom of it.

  i feel like a weight has been lifted.

  i feel free again - a tiny bit lonely at night - but mostly i think i've recaptured that long lost spring in my step.

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  Norm

  I enjoy living alone here in the forest but I wouldn't mind it one bit if you dropped in for a visit Crumpet.

  Norm
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  156

  Is Atheism/Evolutionism Dangerous? Questions for Unbelievers

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does the belief that there is no all-loving diety in which to be accountable to make it easier or harder to treat and judge others they way that you want to be treated and judged?.

  since evolution supposes that life and ultimately man who is at the top of the chain got here through a process of the fittest dominating and killing off the weaker, and since most modern evolutionists in democracies no longer think that this is good to practice, how do you deal with the fact that you are a living contradiction of your own belief since you pronounce the same thing both good and bad?

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  Norm

  When I read the opening of this thread I immediately felt a headache coming on. It is really sad when you realize that people are too fucking dumb even to begin debating with them. It is exceedingly tiresom to discuss with people who haven't even been able to grasp the basics of what they are trying to discuss.

  I am really sorry for being this caustic, but life is to short for this crap.
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  78

  Watchtower 2007 3/15 -- Is 1914 dropped?

  by observer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  watchtower 2007 3/15 is very unusual.

  it is titled (when freely translated) "how coming of the christ affects you?".

  in the first article there is not speaking about 1914 or invisible presence.

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  Norm

  I don't think it's likely that the WTS will drop 1914 any time soon. To much hangs on that date.
  About this business of Jesus coming I have found it quite amusing when I have read texts like this:

  (Matthew 24:50) 50 the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know,

  (Matthew 24:42-44) 42 Keep on the watch, therefore, because YOU do not know on what day YOUR Lord is coming. 43 “But know one thing, that if the householder had known in what watch the thief was coming, he would have kept awake and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 On this account YOU too prove yourselves ready, because at an hour that YOU do not think to be it, the Son of man is coming.

  (Luke 12:40) 40 YOU also, keep ready, because at an hour that YOU do not think likely the Son of man is coming.”

  I mean, for Apocalyptic sects like the JW's it will simply be impossible for Christ ever to return as "a thief" or otherwise as there NEVER is a time when he is not expected! There is never "an hour that YOU do not think to be it," or "an hour that YOU do not think likely the Son of man is coming.”
  
  You see it is simply not possible for Christ to find any moment at all when his return isn't expected.

  Norm
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  6

  The Ten Commandments

  by darth frosty in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just had a thought, was i the only one who thought the story of the ten commandments was a crock.

  moses is up in the mountain and god with his own finger write's them on stone tablets and gives them to moses.

  god than tells moses, go down them people are acting up.

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  Norm

  The Ten Commandments

  I have some shocking news for all of you believers out there. WE have been fooled all our lives. So much for honesty and Christian “values.” Every time you have seen and read the Decalogue, which is the posh name for the 10 Commandments you have been unaware that they are a fake.

  Now let me elaborate. Let us use the most holy of Bibles the New World Translation.
  We will read Exodus 19: 20 and 20: 2-17 which say:

  *** Rbi8 Exodus 19:20-25 ***
  20 So Jehovah came down upon Mount Si´nai to the top of the mountain. Then Jehovah called Moses to the top of the mountain, and Moses went on up. 21 Jehovah now said to Moses: “Go down, warn the people, that they do not try to break through to Jehovah to take a look and many of them have to fall. 22 And let the priests also who regularly come near to Jehovah sanctify themselves, that Jehovah may not break out upon them.” 23 At this Moses said to Jehovah: “The people are not able to come up to Mount Si´nai, because you yourself already warned us, saying, ‘Set bounds for the mountain and make it sacred.’” 24 However, Jehovah said to him: “Go, descend, and you must come up, you and Aaron with you; but let not the priests and the people break through to come up to Jehovah, that he may not break out upon them.” 25 Accordingly Moses descended to the people and told them.

  The 10 Commandments a message received orally.
  Notice the very significant detail that this time Moses was merely receiving an oral message from Jehovah. Nowhere in the text is it stated that this message constituted the 10 Commandments.

  *** Rbi8 Exodus 20:1-17 ***
  20 And God proceeded to speak all these words, saying:
  2 “I am Jehovah your God, who have brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slaves. 3 You must not have any other gods against my face.
  4 “You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or that is on the earth underneath or that is in the waters under the earth. 5 You must not bow down to them nor be induced to serve them, because I Jehovah your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation, in the case of those who hate me; 6 but exercising loving-kindness toward the thousandth generation in the case of those who love me and keep my commandments.
  7 “You must not take up the name of Jehovah your God in a worthless way, for Jehovah will not leave the one unpunished who takes up his name in a worthless way.
  8 “Remembering the sabbath day to hold it sacred, 9 you are to render service and you must do all your work six days. 10 But the seventh day is a sabbath to Jehovah your God. You must not do any work, you nor your son nor your daughter, your slave man nor your slave girl nor your domestic animal nor your alien resident who is inside your gates. 11 For in six days Jehovah made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them, and he proceeded to rest on the seventh day. That is why Jehovah blessed the sabbath day and proceeded to make it sacred.
  12 “Honor your father and your mother in order that your days may prove long upon the ground that Jehovah your God is giving you.
  13 “You must not murder.
  14 “You must not commit adultery.
  15 “You must not steal.
  16 “You must not testify falsely as a witness against your fellowman.
  17 “You must not desire your fellowman’s house. You must not desire your fellowman’s wife, nor his slave man nor his slave girl nor his bull nor his ass nor anything that belongs to your fellowman.”

  We have always been told that Moses received the 10 Commandments from God on stone tablets on top of the mountain.

  So what are the REAL 10 Commandments, what was written on the stone tablets Moses did receive? We will find out:

  Moses seemed to have been on top of that mountain at least 3 times and here is what happened, probably the second time:

  *** Rbi8 Exodus 31:18 ***
  18 Now as soon as he had finished speaking with him on Mount Si´nai he proceeded to give Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone written on by God’s finger.

  But when Moses came down he screwed up and destroyed the tablets:

  *** Rbi8 Exodus 32:19 ***
  19 So it came about that as soon as he got near the camp and could see the calf and the dances, Moses’ anger began to blaze, and he at once threw the tablets from his hands and shattered them at the foot of the mountain.

  So Moses had to climb all the way back up again to get the two stone tablets again. This is apparently what was written upon those stone tablets

  *** Rbi8 Exodus 34:14-28 ***
  14 For you must not prostrate yourself to another god, because Jehovah, whose name is Jealous, he is a jealous God; 15 for fear that you may conclude a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, as they will certainly have immoral intercourse with their gods and sacrifice to their gods, and someone will be certain to invite you, and you will certainly eat some of his sacrifice. 16 Then you will have to take some of their daughters for your sons, and their daughters will be certain to have immoral intercourse with their gods and make your sons have immoral intercourse with their gods.
  17 “You must not make molten idol gods for yourself.
  18 “The festival of unfermented cakes you are to keep. You will eat unfermented cakes, just as I have commanded you, seven days at the appointed time in the month of A´bib, because it was in the month of A´bib that you came out of Egypt.
  19 “Everything that first opens the womb is mine, and, as regards all your livestock, the male firstling of bull and of sheep. 20 And the firstling of an ass you are to redeem with a sheep. But if you will not redeem it, then you must break its neck. Every firstborn of your sons you are to redeem. And they must not appear before me empty-handed.
  21 “Six days you are to labor, but on the seventh day you will keep sabbath. In plowing time and in harvest you will keep sabbath.
  22 “And you will carry on your festival of weeks with the first ripe fruits of the wheat harvest, and the festival of ingathering at the turn of the year.
  23 “Three times in the year every male of yours is to appear before the [true] Lord, Jehovah, the God of Israel. 24 For I shall drive the nations away from before you, and I will make your territory spacious; and nobody will desire your land while you are going up to see the face of Jehovah your God three times in the year.
  25 “You must not slaughter along with what is leavened the blood of my sacrifice. And the sacrifice of the festival of the passover should not stay overnight until the morning.
  26 “The best of the first ripe fruits of your soil you are to bring to the house of Jehovah your God.
  “You must not boil a kid in its mother’s milk.”
  27 And Jehovah went on to say to Moses: “Write down for yourself these words, because it is in accordance with these words that I do conclude a covenant with you and Israel.” 28 And he continued there with Jehovah forty days and forty nights. He ate no bread and he drank no water. And he proceeded to write upon the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Words.

  So folks, in the text above you see the real 10 Commandments, not the fake stuff that you have been fobbed off with all these years. Notice that the New World translation tries to throw you off by writing “Ten Words” in verse 28, instead of Ten Commandments as King James does. That is of course if you care about what is written in the Bible. Anyway, here is the REAL thing again, this time from good old King James:

  1. For thou shalt worship no other god
  2. Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
  3. The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep.
  4. Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest.
  5. And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.
  6. Thrice in the year shall all your men children appear before the Lord GOD.
  7. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven;
  8. Neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.
  9. The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God.
  10. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.

  As pointed out above the Bible do not in anyway indicate that the oral message Moses received on the mountain was the Ten Commandments but King James makes it abundantly clear that what is written in Exodus 34: 12- 26 is. Just read Exodus 34: 27-28 in King James:

  27: And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. 28: And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

  So there it is folks, now you know the truth about the Ten Commandments. Me, I was just as dumb and gullible as all of you, this was brought to my attention by the little book, “50 things you are not supposed to know” by Russ Kick, which deserves the honor.

  Norm
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  61

  Stupid Americans

  by Mackin in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  watch this and weep.. .

  edit: for the benefit of americans, the interviewer is not john howard, the austrailan prime minister.

  :-) .

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  Norm

  Being ignorant isn't the same thing as being stupid. If you are very ignorant you might seem stupid but it is two separate things.
  I don't think the US population has an above average percentage of stupid people, it might have an above average percentage of ignorant people. Then again this will depend on what you define as important knowledge. It seems as though many americans have very little knowledge about other nations, geography and international politics. Unfortunately all of this has come to the fore in the socalled "leader of the free world" which seem to be holding his incredible ignorance about everything before him like a banner.

  In general is seems like the bigger the country, the less is the interest in what is going on in the rest of the world.

  There are some really funny and quite caracteristical common phenomenons that you encounter with many US citizens and that is their habit to declare themselves "proud" of the strangest things. Like "proud" of being an American which for most is a total matter of chance. How anyone can be proud of being of any nationality is beyond me as you usually don't have much say in where you are born. Another common and quite irrational statement you often hear is that "I love my country, it's the best in the world, I wouldn't live anywhere else"
  Such statements might not be a sign of stupidity but they sure make people seem extremely arrogant and silly.
  
  As most of the US population don't even own a passport and some haven't even been out of the state they live in they do of course not have any idea whatsover of how it is to live in another country and which one is the "best in the world". I can assure the US participants here that the US is nowhere near being the best country to live in, it is far down on that list both statistically and otherwise. That said I wouldn't have any problems living in the US, it is not a bad place to be, but there are so many countries that is a far better place in most respects that counts for it's citizens. I mean just to mention one, how about free healthcare?
  Travel is usually a very good way of discovering such simple and pretty obvious facts and actually living somewhere else or spending longer periods in other countries will soon teach you a thing or two you might not know.
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  10

  HAPPY 60th BIRTHDAY NORM!

  by Dansk in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  happy 60th birthday norm!.

  you've helped so many escape from watchtower's clutches over the years, norm.

  claire and i are proud to have you as a much loved friend!.

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  Norm

  Wow! Good thing I wandered in here today.

  Thank you all folks!! I am doing fine and are enjoying a good
  some good wine at the moment.

  Take care yall,

  Norm