after a while, you just let the anger and bitterness go.
you accept that what happened to you was YOUR normal. everything is point of view. when your bummed, your mind will tell you, 'it is NOT all point-of-view! this mess REALLY HAPPENED to me!'
but it really is all point-of-view. your mind is a monster...and it RULES when you get it working for you instead of against you.
things are what they are.
i'll say this: i sometimes do feel a bit of guilt for the ones i studied with and 'assisted to baptism' in the 'truth'. yes, it was their choice...but it also was very Kervorkian of me. assisted suicide. but still...back then, i did what i knew how to do. now that i know better, i do better.
i was talking to a friend of mine....a childhood pal that i reconnected with after about 15 years: we spent some time in Bethel together back in our early 20's.
he was disfellowshipped about 13 years ago...and is now free.
at one point in our conversation the other day he said,'Just think, 'Unlearn'...just think if we had been pushed to really reach for something substantial, to go to college and really go for our lives. think about what we could've been.'
i got out by 40. some years gone...but baby, im still alive and breathing. ;)
Unlearn
JoinedPosts by Unlearn
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16
question for older ex-elders
by scooterspank ini have only just begun to talk to my father about why he left the truth.
i know why he stepped down as an elder many years ago but we have just scratched the surface about why he "faded" in his 60's i would say (he is now 74).
i just wonder how much leaving the "truth" that much later in life has an effect on depression, anxiety, anger (he joined in his 30's)?
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'If your body members you control...'
by Unlearn in'if your body members you control,.
you make known that the truth is your own.'.
this verse in particular from the jw song 'make the truth your own' has provided several instances of hysterical laughter between my wife and i.. just think about it.
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Unlearn
'If your body members you control,
you make known that the truth is your own.'
This verse in particular from the JW song 'Make The Truth Your Own' has provided several instances of hysterical laughter between my wife and I.
Just think about it. It's an awkward thing to even say. It's totally disconnected from any other thought in the song.
If one of us just starts to say it to the other, it's all over...
Guess you just have to be there...
So glad I'm out.
What do you know? Both me & Trent Reznor finally found 'happiness'. ;) -
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Sex without emotion
by free2beme ini see these movies lately, that show men and woman having sex as a friends without 'planned' emotions.
who then fall in love, and end up having to admit that sex without emotion was not possible.
i wonder though, do you really think this is the case.
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Unlearn
Yes, sex without emotion is entirely possible, and many studies by reputable scientists and biologists will tell you that it is 'natural'. Monogamy is a biological deviation...an 'exception' in nature, relatively speaking.
'Moral monogamy' is a human sociological construct. Im not saying it's 'bad', but it IS an emotional choice...one that's cuntivated and trained in us socially, as soon as we come out of the womb. We are socially taught how to think and what to feel.
I think this is what makes us all the more special...that we can choose to develop and nurture strong emotions for one with whom we are physically involved with...and that we can also (if we choose) exult in the pure physical excahnge of sexual energy with a casual partner.
It's interesting how ancient religious systems could totally differentiate between 'emotional' sex and the kind of sex that is sheer indulgence and exchange of physical energies. We were so much more 'together' then.
Over the centuries, 'religious' people have systematically crafted this fairy-tale of sorts...that there are 'angels in the hearts of men'. The idea that you have personally dripped from 'god's' fingers, drastically distorts reality. It steals the raw natural energy from a thing. 'Monotheism' was a big step backward, in that it destroyed many of the old spiritual constructs...which were realistic and frankly much more mature in their attitudes towards sex and sexual energy.
If you choose to have a life partner, and both of you have a very realistic and matter-of-fact view of sex, you can enjoy a freedom and life-experience that are unique. 'Sex' does not = 'love'. THAT is a choice...a social construct implanted by parents, cultivated by surroundings, and enforced by 'god'...or so we may call him, since only men seem to speak directly for him...
my opinion... -
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Difference between Religious people and Cult members ?
by stuckinamovement inin the words of rabbi shmuley........ "people who are in a relationship with g-d are humble and do their utmost to refrain from judging others.
their proximity to a perfect being reminds them of their own fallibility.
their experience of g-d's compassion leads them to be merciful and loving.
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Unlearn
If one is being honest, Christianity in general is a cult.
We seem to forget that the 'population' of a group is NOT a determining factor regarding it's 'cult' status.
Jesus Christ fit the criteria of 'cult leader' perfectly...almost as if he was created for the role.
I don't think there is much difference at all between 'organized religion' folks and stereo-typical 'cultists'. Not at all.
When one adopts an 'anity' or an 'ism' to contain their entire identity, they (by default) totally close off other possibilities of existence/belief/etc. and do themselves a horrible injustice. Whether they choose to realize it or not, it is INSTANTLY limiting.
You are ETERNAL.
No categorical label can contain all that you are and all that you can and will be.
To think so is not 'divine' or godly: it is very, very 'human'. -
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The WATCHTOWER isn't DECEITFUL , they are just IMPERFECT
by Minimommi ini recently started questioning my beliefs and i am not happy with what i found out.
i am married to a born in who admits that wtbs has some problems.
one of his favorite scriptures to quote is psalms 146:3 to "not put your trust in nobles", including the so called fds.
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Unlearn
If he reads that Bible, ask him first, 'Does God change the kind of person he is?'
He'll say no.
Then read Deut. 18:22.
Let him think on that...how his God feels about someone who prophesies something that doesn't come true. They weren't just 'imperfect'.
You may also focus on other good 'worldly' people you know.Some of them have amazing families, have raised successful children....and enjoy all the benefits of a relatively healthy life.
The JW mindset is that, without the org, your life WILL spiral out of control.
They've seeded the minds of their members with the idea that the org and good 'morals' are one in the same: you cannot have one without the other. It's very clever...genius, in fact. It's bonded to the way they reason.
It runs very deep in born-ins.
Few of them ever really think of some of the 'worldly' people they've known all of their lives who are healthy and thriving. -
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What was your most DISTURBING event as an elder ? (Per T.O.S. no full names please).
by Balaamsass ini'll start the ball rolling.
dealing with kids in any type of judicial manner.
i would do everything i could to get parents to "deal with it-kindly" at home.
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Unlearn
Most disturbing thing?
Back when I moved into a new congregation, the brothers filling me in on a sister who suffered from serious emotional issues. They were joking about here...laughing, calling her 'our problem'. The conversation then began to turn, ever so gradually, into an idea session...wondering how the police could be brought into this situation to have this sister forcibly commited. I mentioned to the body that this woman was one of Jesus little sheep...surely if she is no problem for him then she should be none for us. They all got very quiet: half of them seemed genuinely ashamed while a couple of the others gave me the 'who do you think you are?' look. I made enemies that day and it would come back to positively kick my ass a few years later.
The P.O. spoke up and said that they didn't mean anything serious by it, but that I was 'perhaps, correct'.
Another thing that was very disturbing to me, but maybe not so dramatically as above, was this: having young men (18-30) come to me to confess masturbating. In my years as elder, at least 5 or 6 of them approached me about this.
-ALL of them were good young men...nice guys. No shiftiness.
-ALL of them were nice looking guys. What I'm sure most women would consider a 'catch'.
-ALL of them were wearing themselves out bu 'reaching out'.
-ALL of them were broken men over this. Full of the most horrible type of guilt. They all were, at certain points, a mass of tears and weeping. In one case, guttural, hunched over wailing.It was always sad to see. These men were very chaste...to a JW-style insane degree. When you cant be friends with a woman...can't kiss or even hold hands, if you aren't 'pursuing marrigae', to prohibit masturbation is a very nasty kind of edict. Mean and nasty.
I never told any of the other elders about these cases...even when some of them were suffering with repeated 'sessions'. I always told these guys that they were not obligated to tell anyone else but me...that it was between us. They'd followed the rules: they told an elder. I sometimes think that no matter what happens, and no matter how much the names of my wife and i have been drug through the JW gossip mud, those men might have some lingering respect for me. -
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This fear alone kept me from posting on this site for several years.
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William Cooper Was Hardly a Crackpot............................
by Judge Dread inwilliam cooper was no crackpot.. some of his biography reads as follows:.
joined the us navy.
served with the strategic air command, usaf.. he was a member of the office of naval security and intelligence in vietnam.. served on the intelligence briefing team for the commander in chief of the pacific fleet.. he held a top secret, q, si security clearance.. he wrote "behold a pale horse".. he hosted his own radio show entitled "hour of the time".. a clinton administration white house memo accused him of being "the most dangerous radio host in america.".
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@leaving jw...
Yes...because he (JFK) was going to expose the existence of alien beings and the ongoing relationship between them and the US Govt.
I still have a folder with all the downloaded stuff i printed out of 'Majestic 12' from an old irc channel online in the mid 90's.
He's a tough one, Cooper. Much of what he says makes a lot of sense, but he pulled a few things in his life that made him seem a bit 'drama' hungry.
But I agree with the OP: 'crackpot'? No way.
Hey, I believe that every monotheistic faith all sprang from an exercise by passive-agressive ancient misogynist middle-eastern farmers to wipe out all of the ancient polytheistic beliefs that glorified the woman as part of the divine feminine...'mother earth'...and goddess worship.
Heh...so I guess I have no freedom of speech on 'crackpot' thinking. -
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The CULT that rarely gets called a CULT...but sure does look like a CULT...
by Unlearn ini found this list below on another site.. you've no doubt seen these lists...or lists similar to them: they give you marked ways to identify a cult.. now, i'm sure many of us agree that these signs eerily match a certain watchtower-slangin' group we're all familiar with.. and im sure that what i'm about to bring up has probably been discussed here sometime before 'my' time.. but, look at these 'cult i.d.
symptoms' below...and let your mind go.
: let your mind freely wander.. who else do these signs apply to...if you think wider?
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Unlearn
' Today, the term is applied to groups that follow a living leader who promotes new and unorthodox doctrines and practices'
Yep, MrDarkKnight...that's Jesus Christ...to a 'T', even.
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The CULT that rarely gets called a CULT...but sure does look like a CULT...
by Unlearn ini found this list below on another site.. you've no doubt seen these lists...or lists similar to them: they give you marked ways to identify a cult.. now, i'm sure many of us agree that these signs eerily match a certain watchtower-slangin' group we're all familiar with.. and im sure that what i'm about to bring up has probably been discussed here sometime before 'my' time.. but, look at these 'cult i.d.
symptoms' below...and let your mind go.
: let your mind freely wander.. who else do these signs apply to...if you think wider?
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Unlearn
What's interesting as well is a point you can pick up from the actual list. Notice this point:
-The leader is not accountable to any authorities except god (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).
Notice that even the makers of this list (who obviously acknowledge that cults exist and are potentially dangerous) seem to qualify that 'mainstream religious denominations' sort of absolve a group from being called a 'cult'...even if they qualify in every other factor. To me, thats disingeniuous...very much so.
Because a cult is 'large' doesn't mean it's not still a cult.
There's this stereo-typical idea that a cult cannot be massively populated...and that's nuts. Mass hysteria is nothing new to the human race. When does the population of a belief legitimize it?
I also think that many people mistakenly view 'Christianity' as more of an 'idea' and not necessarily a 'religion'. It definitely IS a religion...and all of the so-called 'Christian religions' are just sects of the actual religion itself. This adoration of Jesus Christ IS the religion...and, according to any cult-signs list you can find, the man was a cult leader. From his own lips, 'There is no way except through me. I am the way...'
Again, if you believe his presentation, then of course you will disagree.
You believe.