Also, BOTR, that is an interesting possibility that you bring up that Jewish Christians and Greek or Greek-influenced Christians may have understood the so-called resurrection hope differently. I need to look into that more. Thanks!
Socrateswannabe
JoinedPosts by Socrateswannabe
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47
Did Stephen believe he would have to wait 2000 years for a resurrection?
by Socrateswannabe inin acts 7:59, the jews were casting stones at stephen and his last words were, "lord jesus, receive my spirit.".
the wts has contended that all of the ancients who died after jesus were in a sleep-like condition, awaiting a resurrection that eventually happened in 1918-1919 (depending upon which wt reference you are looking at).
and in fact, v. 60 says stephen "fell asleep in death".
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Did Stephen believe he would have to wait 2000 years for a resurrection?
by Socrateswannabe inin acts 7:59, the jews were casting stones at stephen and his last words were, "lord jesus, receive my spirit.".
the wts has contended that all of the ancients who died after jesus were in a sleep-like condition, awaiting a resurrection that eventually happened in 1918-1919 (depending upon which wt reference you are looking at).
and in fact, v. 60 says stephen "fell asleep in death".
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Socrateswannabe
Bobcat and BOTR, thank you both for your comments and helpful suggestions. For a couple of years now I have used this forum and the search feature as a main source of information. I appreciate it when posters name the scholarly research from which their opinions were formed. It helps a lot. I stumbled on this site when googling a question about the viability of a vessel such as Noah's ark being seaworthy, and I have been hooked on on JWN ever since. Those posters on this forum that you mentioned, Bobcat, as great sources of information and scholarly research, have indeed helped me a great deal. I will investigate the suggestions that you and BOTR have offered, and hopefully this will help me on my quest for truth, or at least the closest I can come to truth, since I no longer believe it as an absolute. Thanks again!
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Did Stephen believe he would have to wait 2000 years for a resurrection?
by Socrateswannabe inin acts 7:59, the jews were casting stones at stephen and his last words were, "lord jesus, receive my spirit.".
the wts has contended that all of the ancients who died after jesus were in a sleep-like condition, awaiting a resurrection that eventually happened in 1918-1919 (depending upon which wt reference you are looking at).
and in fact, v. 60 says stephen "fell asleep in death".
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Socrateswannabe
Thanks for the responses. Bobcat, you are one of several people on this forum who obviously have a great number of resources at your disposal and who know how to use them. I would like to learn more about the bible, its origins, how it was compiled, who really wrote it, the differences between the source texts, etc., which you, among others, seem to be very plugged into. My purpose may be different from some of you, in that I am firmly leaning toward the bible as being a work of man with many errors and contradictions. But I would like to either validate my skepticism or disprove it, based upon the best scholarly works available. Would you or any others on this forum recommend particular references or books that will help me? Basically, what did you read and what do you refer to in order to draw your conclusions?
It's sad that I don't know the answer to these questions, but as an "active" JW, I have been trained for years to only read WTS publications and the cherry picked quotes from dubious sources. Please help me to get some objectivity here, would you?
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Did Stephen believe he would have to wait 2000 years for a resurrection?
by Socrateswannabe inin acts 7:59, the jews were casting stones at stephen and his last words were, "lord jesus, receive my spirit.".
the wts has contended that all of the ancients who died after jesus were in a sleep-like condition, awaiting a resurrection that eventually happened in 1918-1919 (depending upon which wt reference you are looking at).
and in fact, v. 60 says stephen "fell asleep in death".
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Socrateswannabe
Bobcat, yes, I agree with you that Paul placed the resurrection of the worthies during Christ's presence, which the WTS places in the 20th century. But who forgot to tell Stephen?
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Did Stephen believe he would have to wait 2000 years for a resurrection?
by Socrateswannabe inin acts 7:59, the jews were casting stones at stephen and his last words were, "lord jesus, receive my spirit.".
the wts has contended that all of the ancients who died after jesus were in a sleep-like condition, awaiting a resurrection that eventually happened in 1918-1919 (depending upon which wt reference you are looking at).
and in fact, v. 60 says stephen "fell asleep in death".
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Socrateswannabe
In Acts 7:59, the Jews were casting stones at Stephen and his last words were, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."
The WTS has contended that all of the ancients who died after Jesus were in a sleep-like condition, awaiting a resurrection that eventually happened in 1918-1919 (depending upon which WT reference you are looking at). And in fact, V. 60 says Stephen "fell asleep in death".
But his first utterance, asking Jesus by the way, not Jehovah, to receive his spirit, seems to indicate that he expected an instant resurrection to heaven. I don't see any explanation from the WTS regarding this scripture, or how it can be taken any other way. Admittedly, I no longer believe the bible as truth, I'm not convinced that there was a man named Stephen or that he spoke any of these words, just as most of the other bible characters were, I believe, fictional and the stories carried the agendas of those writing them. However, shouldn't this give the WTS fits? How could they possibly account for it?
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Tech49 on HOURS, TIME, and REPORTS
by Tech49 ini thought i would share some of my observations on counting field service time, reports, etc.
and how those reports are viewed, to those that are still so fixated on numbers.. i served as secretary on the service committee for many years, and have seen it all!.
i was really disheartened when wt changed the requirement for aux pioneering to allow for 30 hrs, instead of the 50 it has been for so long.
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Socrateswannabe
Tech49, you are right on all counts. Over the past decade, I have seen a marked increase in the COs being numbers men. We had one moron who analyzed our circuit with the same scrutiny that a Wall Street banker would use on a potential IPO. We were analyzed up, down, and sideways, and were told how we compared in every category to the other congregations in the circuit. Then when the week is over and the CO hands you your copy of the S-303 form (his report to the branch on his visit with your congregation), it is full of self-agrandizement and pats on the back for the marvelous achievements that he made happen while he was gracing us with his presence.
The 30 hour requirement was a major and in my opinion a non-reversible mistake by the GB or whoever came up with this ridiculous idea. Now they have worked themselves into the same hole as US carmakers did back a decade or so ago (one with which they are still struggling). In order to sell more cars, the most desperate auto manufacturer (I don't remember which one but it was probably Chrysler) introduced zero percent interest for 3, 4, or 5 years. Initially it seemed like a great idea because they definitely sold more cars. All of the other domestic manufacturers had to offer the same deal, otherwise they would lose sales. The problem is that they were teaching the American public never to buy a new car unless they can buy it with zero percent financing. Sure enough, once the incentives went away, new car sales dropped off dramatically. Another round of zero percent loans were put in place, and the cycle was firmly entrenched.
We see two things in our congregation. One is very similar to what you experienced, and that is that close to half the publishers sign up for 30 hours in one of the "special" months, and of those, about half fail to make the 30, including many of the elders and their families. The second thing we've seen is, NOBODY auxiliary pioneers anymore unless it's a 30 hour month. In the past two years that this program has been in place, I think I've seen 2 maybe applications that had 50 hours marked on them. So now the WTS has created its own monster. They have a big showing in March every year of 30 hour pioneers, they have a smattering of 30 hour pioneers on the months that the CO visits (a new "provision), but that's it, baby! Hung by their own petard!
These guys are not exactly rocket scientists up in Brooklyn or Patterson or wherever they're holed up these days!
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Should all elders be painted with the same brush?
by Socrateswannabe inan hour or two ago, i was reading a topic on this forum that welcomed new elders to jwn.
there was some criticism aimed at the op and i understand that elders shouldn't be singled out as special.
one poster said he/she hates all elders.
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Socrateswannabe
XBEHERE, I feel your pain, truly.
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Should all elders be painted with the same brush?
by Socrateswannabe inan hour or two ago, i was reading a topic on this forum that welcomed new elders to jwn.
there was some criticism aimed at the op and i understand that elders shouldn't be singled out as special.
one poster said he/she hates all elders.
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Socrateswannabe
Thank you Painted ToeNail!
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Should all elders be painted with the same brush?
by Socrateswannabe inan hour or two ago, i was reading a topic on this forum that welcomed new elders to jwn.
there was some criticism aimed at the op and i understand that elders shouldn't be singled out as special.
one poster said he/she hates all elders.
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Socrateswannabe
Painted ToeNail, I am very interested in that. Would you give me the title of any of these books? I would really like to pursue it. Thank you!
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Should all elders be painted with the same brush?
by Socrateswannabe inan hour or two ago, i was reading a topic on this forum that welcomed new elders to jwn.
there was some criticism aimed at the op and i understand that elders shouldn't be singled out as special.
one poster said he/she hates all elders.
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Socrateswannabe
Thanks Pickler and Blondie. The sinking ship analogy is a good one, Blondie. The only reason why it is not a perfect analogy is because with a sinking ship, the only option is get off or die. In JW land, my wife and children will certainly not lead as full a life as they would if they learned TTATT and if we all left as a family, but they will not die as a result of staying. I can say that because I have already made up my mind that if a blood transfusion is ever an issue with any of my family, that is where I will draw the line. I will do whatever is necessary to preserve their lives, even if it means getting myself DFed for it. So you can imagine that I am hoping mightily that none of them ever get into that situation.
Regarding child molestation, fortunately I have never had to be involved in a case. Since being appointed, our congregation has not had to deal with that issue. Before Candace Conti, I have to admit that I had not given it much thought. I simply viewed it as tragic but didn't face the fact that I could have to deal with it some day. Since Candace, however, I have thought about it more. I have already stated that I always lobby for mercy in a judicial situation but that is the one area that I would never be satisfied for anything less than DFing, not because I think it would do the perpetrator any spiritual good by being disciplined, but because it is one way to get the offender away from our kids. I don't care what the WTS says, no elder should counsel a victim or their family against informing the police. If the family chooses not to, I don't know what I would do but I have told other elders in my congregation that my conscience would not allow me to remain silent and that I would have to report if no one else does. So far I haven't gotten any blowback from that.
None of this is ideal, that's for sure. But I don't have any better answers at this point.