Posts by Socrateswannabe

39

Publisher ID - I Saw It In Person & It Was Terrifying!

by thedepressedsoul in

i'd like to start off this post by saying, we all know that the wt loves control.

it's clear by their history, their wt's, the elder arrangement and so on.

however, after witnessing and using the publish id program in person, it takes this need for control to a whole new level & it was scary.. if you've ever seen builder assist (the website program used for ldc volunteers) or the metro program, it actually looks pretty similar to that.

Socrateswannabe

Hello everyone,

As a congregation secretary of about 20 years running (PIMO), I’m certain that “Joe or Jane Publisher” has little to worry about respecting their data. Congregations do not routinely provide an individual’s data to the Org. The Org doesn’t know your birth date, your baptism date, your publisher status, or your field service stats. In fact, as far as I know, it doesn’t know (or care) that Joe or Jane Publisher exists, other than as a number (your secretary reports the sums for the congregation, including the number of active publishers).

The exception to this is when a publisher “reaches out” for special privileges, such as:

Regular pioneer

Ministerial servant

Elder

Temporary or permanent Bethel service

Special Metropolitan Public Witnessing

School for Kingdom Evangelizers

LDC

Etc., etc.

In addition, you can show up on the Org’s radar (and thus have a file with data) if:

You are disfellowshipped (though not if you are simply reproved)

You write or call the Org, complaining about something or indicating skepticism regarding a JW belief. This will generate a letter or phone call to your congregation elders, along with a request for some of your data.

In the past few years, the LDC has asked congregations for the addresses of all active publishers in their territory for the purpose of rearranging congregation boundaries, etc., but (at least in the US) they have never asked for publisher’s names. Each visit, the circuit overseer gets a list of active and inactive publishers in the congregation along with their contact information, and it is possible that this information is shared with the Org, but I doubt it. It looks to me that the Org, for liability purposes, wishes to know as few details as possible of the congregation, its members, and their activities.

If you don’t want your data shared with the Org, my suggestion is to fly under the radar. Don’t request or accept any privileges and don’t create a kerfuffle, and you shouldn’t have anything to worry about.

17

Whatever happened to them??

by jeffory1 in

jw
friends

just talking to someone recently about former co's in our area.

it went as follows,,,,george cook,saw that he was now in princes congregation or should say the former prince.. brother gwaltney,,nw usa area now drives a school bus his wife sold cosmetics at a nordstrom.

brother spangenberg had to leave co work as his wife was sick ,,went to low paying menial job.. brother ---- cant remember his name but he is now working a a waiter in a italian restaurant,,singing as requested by customers.

Socrateswannabe

Jeffory1, if these guys had any time in the circuit work at all and they are now working menial jobs for a living, then they are morons or very poor money managers. If you think about how much money they can extort from each congregation they serve, every time they serve them, AND the fact that every freakin' expense they have in life is paid by somebody else, then by the time these guys hit 70, their mandatory retirement age, they should be far more set than you or I are likely to be at that age.

74

The Watchtower's Real Crisis

by JeffT in

jw
friends

when discussing the watchtowers financial problems, i've generally been of the opinion that they probably are not in a real financial crisis.

i've come to believe that money may be something of an issue, but its wrapped up in a much larger problem.

this came to me this morning when reading about the annual meeting.. i think the society's leadership is just plain out of ideas.

Socrateswannabe

Point taken, Cofty. Their videos are an investment only in the sense that it helps to mainstream the JW sect and attract new membership. They have to hope that those new members earned university educations before entering the sect and thus will be better contributors than the born-ins.

74

The Watchtower's Real Crisis

by JeffT in

jw
friends

when discussing the watchtowers financial problems, i've generally been of the opinion that they probably are not in a real financial crisis.

i've come to believe that money may be something of an issue, but its wrapped up in a much larger problem.

this came to me this morning when reading about the annual meeting.. i think the society's leadership is just plain out of ideas.

Socrateswannabe

As other large printing businesses have done, they have recognized that their business model must change. Printed publications, in all markets, have been shrinking for two decades. It makes sense for them to move toward digital delivery of their content. However, it requires a massive investment in infrastructure to do so. They are also dumping many, many millions into video production. For the Borg, this is a good investment. If you watch their content, you can see that the videos paint them almost as a mainstream, or at least as a charismatic-type religion, not as a nutter group.

The problem that they have run into is that there is less perceived value to a video or a PDF document than there is for a printed publication. I would guess that the number of contributions that publishers receive in the door to door work is just about zero. That means their source of revenue is coming from their members only, not the public. Their own policies are creating a catch-22, though, since they discourage their members from education that would provide them with good paying jobs. And, speaking of good paying jobs, they discourage that too. Not much of an economic pool to drain for contributions, if you ask me.

29

Relaxed rules toward oral sex?

by Socrateswannabe in

these people won't state anything definitively, but here's an excerpt from the study article entitled "making christian marriage a success", in the august, 2016 watchtower.

it does make me wonder.. although the bible does not provide specific rules about the kinds and limits of love play that might be associated with natural, sexual intimacy, it mentions displays of affection.

(song of solomon 1:2; 2:6) christian marriage partners should treat each other with tenderness.

Socrateswannabe

These people won't state anything definitively, but here's an excerpt from the study article entitled "Making Christian Marriage a Success", in the August, 2016 Watchtower. It does make me wonder.

Although the Bible does not provide specific rules about the kinds and limits of love play that might be associated with natural, sexual intimacy, it mentions displays of affection. (Song of Solomon 1:2; 2:6) Christian marriage partners should treat each other with tenderness. (Italics mine)

Does this indicate a softening of their antiquated view of oral sex?

79

WT Flip-Flops on Jesus Inspection Was it in 1918 or 1919?... Did the WT PASS or FAIL?

by Alfred in

this is utterly ridiculous.... .

the more i research this particular subject, the more flip-flops i uncover.

it seems the fds cant even make up their minds regarding what happened in 1918 (or should i say 1919?).

Socrateswannabe

I am impressed that ex-JWs know far more about JW doctrine than active JWs know. Well done!

16

Argument for JDubs or any Fundi's

by Socrateswannabe in

jehovah's witnesses believe:.

1. man was created in 4026 bce.

2. a global flood occurred in 2370 bce.

Socrateswannabe

Punkofnice: Although they now admit that earth is millions of years old, they still believe that man and other living things are only 6,000 years old. So I guess god made the earth, let it sit there for millions of years, and then finally decided to do something with it. I'm pretty sure these are valid dates in JW world.

16

Argument for JDubs or any Fundi's

by Socrateswannabe in

jehovah's witnesses believe:.

1. man was created in 4026 bce.

2. a global flood occurred in 2370 bce.

Socrateswannabe

Jehovah's Witnesses believe:

1. Man was created in 4026 BCE

2. A global flood occurred in 2370 BCE

3. The Israelite’s wandering in the Wilderness began in 1513 BCE

Witnesses believe at man’s creation, all of the universe was at peace. However, this leaves them with the problem of accounting for animals who sport armor, or defensive or offensive weapons as body parts. JW’s could develop the argument that god created the animals with the ability to be dangerous but simply didn’t allow them to exercise that ability. But even for a JDub that argument would have to seem pretty ridiculous, and they would probably reject it anyway based upon their idea that they serve a god of love who would never create inherently dangerous creatures.

Their only other option is to believe that these animals grew those dangerous anatomical features through adaption. Of course most people realize that it takes hundreds of thousands or even millions of years for that to happen. But using JW’s own chronology, the animals had far less time than that in which to adapt. Dubs believe that god’s prohibition against eating meat was lifted after a global flood, which they believe occurred in 2370 BCE. It is also their belief that that is when animals began killing one another for food. We can extrapolate that and say that that’s when these dangerous or deadly features of animals would have been “allowed” to begin evolving. How long did it take them to evolve? For the venomous snake, it could only have been a few hundred years. Numbers 21:6 says that god sent venomous snakes against the Israelites when they were wandering in the Wilderness, and that some Israelites died from the snakebites. According to JW chronology, it was fewer than 900 years between the flood and the Israelite’s trek through the Wilderness.

For a group of people who don’t believe in evolution, they are stuck with the belief that god allowed extremely rapid evolution of these animals. How would they handle that?

18

Christians made me stop believing in the Bible

by jws in

i'm agnostic.

there could be a god, but i don't believe it's the god described in the bible.i grew up a jw believing in the bible.

after i left, i didn't want religion but was determined to be a christian on my own.. but things started to unravel.

Socrateswannabe

Long ago I concluded that the bible is a book of (bad) fairy tales. Now I marvel at the staying power that these ridiculous and harmful stories have had in the judeo/christian tradition. What modern people still believes greek mythology as truth? No one. But the flood, adam and eve, miracles of the prophets, jesus...all of these are taken at face value by millions of people. Puzzling.

26

The bOrg Cult Tactics

by pale.emperor in

i'm wondering if the borg actually studied mind control and coercion tactics deliberately or wether they just evolved over time through trial and error.

from reading steve hassans books, studying hypnosis and methods psychopaths use it all seems very complex.

like it would never occur to me to do a, b and c in the right order at the right time in order to get control of someone or control their lives.. for example, repetition of words (the word "loyalty" was a big one in the last convention), using loaded language, encouraging people not to trust their own thoughts, restricting their information, demonising those who leave etc.

Socrateswannabe

I think people are either bullies and abusers or they aren't. I don't think it's learned, it's just something that they innately know how to do. It just so happens that they have scratched their way to power in the WTS and it's been that way ever since this org was formed back in Russel's time.