Quid Est Veritas
BroMac
JoinedPosts by BroMac
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25
is jws really growing or only natural increases from kids.?
by mP infirstly yes we all know most jw bornins leave but a quarter give or take continue.
im going to argue that this is the only source of any increase.
those that leave are barely replaced if at all by new recruits in third world countries.
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BroMac
i don't know much about growth rates, only what i can see.
for the last 4-5yrs at the CA both special day & 2day the majority is always younger born ins. and the occasional old woman helped into the pool who is dipped in full sunday dress.
i was at a special day, i think it was 3yrs ago now where there was only 1 baptism candidate, a born in.
i mentioned this to a friend in the next district to ours and they had 0 baptised.
when i was baptised in the 90's there were around 30 being dipped, a mix of born ins and adults brought in from D2D
i remember how it used to take such a long time to get everyone through. 2 at a time.
Now they still have 2 brothers in the pool doing the baptising but only send out 1 at a time to get dipped.
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9
Irish JW Who's Husband Was Cheating Suffers DF'd & Shunning
by BroMac inhttp://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0306/1224312851835.html.
claim by jehovah's witness dismissed - the irish times - tue, mar 06, 2012.
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BroMac
Jehovah's slander action over husband thrown out
A JUDGE has thrown out a Jehovah's Witness slander action over allegations she implied her husband was an adulterer.
Ruth Moram says she was shunned by members -- or "disfellowshipped" -- for allegedly slandering her husband by implying he was an adulterer.
But she failed in a bid to bring her own High Court action for slander. Ms Moram, of Mastergeeha, Kilcummin, Killarney, Co Kerry, sought damages against three members of the Killarney Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses.
She claimed she had been slandered in a letter written by one of them to her in December 2009, which accused her of slandering her husband by the adultery allegation. Her husband denied the accusation, the court heard.
Mr Justice John Hedigan yesterday ruled she had shown no cause of action in her claims against Killarney Witness elders Peter Van Benthem, Parkavonear, Aghadoe, Killarney, and Andrew Beeston, Coolmagort, Beaufort, both Kerry. He also dismissed a similar claim against Witness member Martyn Bell, of Firies, Kerry, who wrote the 2009 letter.
The judge also awarded legal costs against Ms Moram who said she would go to jail rather than pay them. She said she would also appeal the decision to the Court of Human Rights.
In his judgment, Mr Justice Hedigan said the case dated back to June 2004 when Ms Moram claimed Mr Van Benthem and Mr Beeston accused her of slander.
Later that month at a meeting of the Killarney Witnesses congregation, Mr Bell gave evidence of the alleged slander of her husband, and as a result Ms Moram was "disfellowshipped".
The court heard that she appealed that decision internally in August 2004 -- and evidence was given in the appeal that Ms Moram had told a fellow Witness that a woman, referred to only by initials, had spent weekends away with her husband.
Ms Moram claimed that as a result of this, she was accused of slander in that she implied her husband was an adulterer.
Following these hearings, she was disfellowshipped from the Killarney Congregation.
Complaint
She then wrote a letter of complaint to the Witnesses branch office in Wicklow and it included photographs of her husband on a weekend break in Galway with the other woman, the judge said.
The branch sent a letter to the appeal committee, which changed its decision and told Ms Moram they "forgave" her.
She refused to accept this, as she insisted she had not slandered anyone and the accusation had not been withdrawn, the judge said.
The court heard that in December 2009, she claimed that Mr Bell wrote a letter which stated she had slandered her husband.
The following February, she formally left the Witnesses after elders of the Killarney congregation refused to allow her to speak at a meeting, he said.
Since then, she claimed, all her Witness friends had been forbidden from speaking to her and that she had been brought into public hatred, contempt and ridicule.
She then issued proceedings in the Circuit Court seeking damages and a declaration she did not commit slander.
A Circuit Court judge found the issues raised were beyond the limits of a secular court.
The judge also said the letter was not published to anyone other than Ms Moram.
She appealed that decision to the High Court. But yesterday, Mr Justice Hedigan dismissed her case saying the events of 2004 were clearly statute-barred because her proceedings must be issued within three years of the event and she had only done so in 2011.
- Tim Healy
Irish Independent
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9
Irish JW Who's Husband Was Cheating Suffers DF'd & Shunning
by BroMac inhttp://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0306/1224312851835.html.
claim by jehovah's witness dismissed - the irish times - tue, mar 06, 2012.
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BroMac
thats better thanks,
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9
Irish JW Who's Husband Was Cheating Suffers DF'd & Shunning
by BroMac inhttp://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0306/1224312851835.html.
claim by jehovah's witness dismissed - the irish times - tue, mar 06, 2012.
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BroMac
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0306/1224312851835.html
Claim by Jehovah's Witness dismissed - The Irish Times - Tue, Mar 06, 2012
Wednesday, March 7, 2012
</form></form> The Irish Times - Tuesday, March 6, 2012Claim by Jehovah's Witness dismissed
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A JEHOVAH’S Witness who claimed she was shunned by other members of her congregation is not entitled to bring an action for slander, the High Court ruled yesterday.
Ruth Moram, Killarney, Co Kerry, claimed she was “disfellowshipped” from the Killarney congregation after she was accused of slandering her husband by implying he was an adulterer. Her husband denied the accusation, the court heard. Ms Moram had brought proceedings against three members of the congregation, claiming she in turn was slandered in a letter written by one of them to her in December 2009.
Mr Justice John Hedigan yesterday ruled Ms Moram had shown no cause of action in her claims against Killarney Jehovah’s Witness elders Peter Van Benthem, and Andrew Beeston, or against Jehovah’s Witness Martyn Bell, Firies, who wrote the letter in 2009. The judge also awarded costs against Ms Moram who said she would go to jail rather than pay them and would also appeal the decision to the European Court of Human Rights.
Mr Justice Hedigan said the case dated back to June 2004 when Ms Moram claimed Mr Van Benthem and Mr Beeston called to her home and accused her of slander without, she claimed, telling her at that stage what the alleged slander was. Later that month, at a meeting of the Killarney congregation, Mr Bell gave evidence of the alleged slander of her husband and as a result Ms Moram was “disfellowshipped”, she said. This meant fellow members were not to associate with her until she repented.
She appealed that decision internally in August 2004 during which evidence was given that Ms Moram had told a fellow Jehovah’s Witness that a woman, referred to only by initials, had spent weekends away with Ms Moram’s husband, Mr Justice Hedigan said.
Ms Moram claimed, as a result of that, she was accused of slander in that she implied her husband was an adulterer, the judge said. In a separate meeting, her husband denied the allegation, the judge added.
Following these hearings, Ms Moram was disfellowshipped. She then wrote a letter of complaint to the branch office in Wicklow and included photographs of her husband on a weekend break in Galway with the other woman, the judge said.
The branch sent a letter to the appeal committee which changed its decision and told Ms Moram the committee “forgave” her. She refused to accept this on grounds she had not slandered anyone but the accusation had not been withdrawn, the judge said. In February 2010, she formally left the Jehovah’s Witnesses after elders refused to allow her to speak at a meeting, he said. Since then, she claimed, all her Jehovah’s Witness friends had been forbidden to speak to her and she had been brought into public hatred, contempt and ridicule.
Mr Justice Hedigan said yesterday the proceedings would have had to be issued within three years of the 2004 events but were only issued in 2011. As there was no publication of the letter and no special damage was claimed, Ms Moram had shown no cause of action against the three and her claim must be dismissed.
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The 2012 JW Survey is now online!
by cedars ini'm delighted to announce that the 2012 annual survey has now been launched and is ready to receive your votes!!.
please visit www.jwsurvey.org and give us your votes at the earliest opportunity.
this latest survey is obviously available to all those who voted in last year's survey, as well as to those who have never voted before.. so, what's different?.
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BroMac
Just done the survey
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33
When Someone You Love Is Removed As An Elder!
by Bubblegum Apotheosis inlast week we lost a wonderful elder (removed, stepped down is what i will believe) , this man was as real, as you can get.
he loved the sheep,.
his eternal optimism of humanity is a rare quality in the jw religion.
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BroMac
@steve2
it depends on the cobe who does the announcements if an elder has stepped aside or is removed then technically it is the same announcement: brother nogood is no longer serving as an elder of the _____ congregation.
so that everyone doesn't get the wrong idea I have heard on a few occasions where they are then thanked for the years they have been serving the brothers etc. -
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My Son's Wisdom
by TOTH inmy youngest son is now in college and while he has always had an extraordinary ability to call it like it is, he is now even more likely to mouth off.
he is honing his deductive reasoning and objective thinking skills very nicely and with his "don't give a shit attitude" when it comes to pointing out hypocrisy, well he is just a walking bs caller...especially around the jw's.. so we were talking this evening about some stuff that used to be taught in the hall back when i was a kid.
no college because young people would never grow old in this system.
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BroMac
@TOTH
thats a great video. i have never heard this actually said before.
@55sec Freddy Franz actually says that by the END of 1975 all this will happen:
The Millenial Kingdom of the Lord Jesus Must Begin in order to fullfil the Final Thousand Years of Gods 7th Creative Day
The Great Tribulation to occur
The Destruction of Babylon The Great
The Anihilation of all the Political Systems of this world
The Binding of Satan and his Demons and their Abyssing
To Occur???
Before this year has ended- this year of Nineteen Hundred And Seventy Five!
Thats A False Prophet. No Question
does anybody know when and where was this convention?
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18
Why can Witness Doctors give Transfusions and sisters sell cigarettes??
by Witness 007 init's a "mortal sin" for a witness to not "abstain from blood" or smoke, yet witness elders who work in the medical field are free to administer blood transfusions.
and sisters that work in a supermarkets in the section that sells smokes are free to do so.....it's like not being immoral yourself but being a "pimp daddy" for others..
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BroMac
own the store? no cigarettes
*** km 2/74 pp. 3-4 Harmonizing Our Employment with ‘Love of Neighbor’ ***
Then there is the person who owns a store and stocks tobacco as a minor item among the many things he sells. He may say he would prefer not to stock it but that his customers demand it, and this may have some basis in fact. He does not feel he is an active promoter of tobacco. Yet, even though his responsibility may be less than that of one whose main means of living is gained from tobacco, what is his reason for acceding to his customers’ demands? Is it not to retain their business and the gain that this brings? Since he is the owner of the store and has control of what is sold there, the responsibility falls directly upon him, and his Christian conscience should move him to dispose of all tobacco stock and not replace it, even though this may result in some financial loss to him. Surely he would be able to adjust his affairs within a reasonable period of time, say three months, and relieve himself of such responsibility, even though suffering some loss, and so be able to continue as a member of the congregation. If a customer inquires why he does not sell tobacco, he can explain that he is being a good neighbor and doing good to others.
employed by the store? yes cigarettes *** km 2/74 p. 4 Harmonizing Our Employment with ‘Love of Neighbor’ *** By comparison there may be a Christian who is simply an employee in an establishment that sells tobacco incidentally and who has no voice or control in what is sold. For example, an employee in a restaurant may be called upon by a customer to sell him a cigar which the management stocks. Or, one may be working in a food market; groceries and meat are the principal products sold, but the owners stock tobacco as an incidental item. The Christian employee may be expected to collect money for items that are sold, including the tobacco. Personal conscience would have to dictate what he or she in this situation could and should do as to handling tobacco products to this extent. He may prefer to ask the employer to relieve him of any handling of these objectionable materials. Unless a serious issue would arise, such employee would not be restricted from serving as a pioneer, an elder or a ministerial servant in the congregation. -
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Why can Witness Doctors give Transfusions and sisters sell cigarettes??
by Witness 007 init's a "mortal sin" for a witness to not "abstain from blood" or smoke, yet witness elders who work in the medical field are free to administer blood transfusions.
and sisters that work in a supermarkets in the section that sells smokes are free to do so.....it's like not being immoral yourself but being a "pimp daddy" for others..
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BroMac
doctors no, nurses yes
*** w99 4/15 Questions From Readers ***
[Footnote]
Some Christians working in hospitals have had to consider this factor of authority. A physician might have authority to order medications for or medical procedures on a patient. Even if a patient did not mind, how could a Christian doctor in authority order a blood transfusion or perform an abortion, knowing what the Bible says on such matters? In contrast, a nurse employed at the hospital might not have such authority. As she performs routine services, a doctor might direct her to perform a blood test for some purpose or to care for a patient who came for an abortion. In line with the example recorded at 2 Kings 5:17-19, she might conclude that since she is not the one with authority who orders a transfusion or performs an abortion, she could carry out human services for a patient. Of course, she still would have to consider her conscience, so as ‘to behave before God with a clear conscience.’—Acts 23:1.
