Posts by lilbluekitty

5

If the wages of Sin is Death than why

by sinis in

do the witnesses usually not allow a da'd or df'd individual, who may have been a member for decades, the opportunity of a congregation funeral?

especially if the family members or living spouse request it?

i thought we were all absolved after death, according to the bible?.

lilbluekitty

Good question!

13

Let the shunning begin, apparently...(long-winded)

by lilbluekitty in

my father and i have been going back and forth on facebook in private messages.

it had been since august that my dad had contacted me, before i was beginning to "come out" about not wanting to be a jw, and actually i haven't actually stated that to any of my family or jw friends yet, as i was hoping to do the fade thing.. well i wrote to my dad and he has recently been very sr (self-righteous) lately and was copy/pasting "answers" to my questions right out of the wt cd-rom.

i called him on it and asked him to speak out of his heart.

lilbluekitty

Quick background info: I live over 2,000 miles away from most of my family, my father included. I stopped attending meetings and service 3 1/2 months ago and my mother is the only one who knows which congregation I'm in. My dad doesn't. Even if he did figure out which I was in and contacted the brothers, they don't even know me because they never bothered to get to know me and my attendance was always sporadic in that congregation.

I don't care either way about my father's side of the family. They've never been there for me so I wouldn't lose much. Honestly I woudn't lose much if I lost my mother's side of the family either but it's much less likely as my mom is actually listening to me.

I never said word one, except on this forum, about joining another church (which I haven't done, I was only thinking about it) so unless my dad is so hypocritical that he trolls this forum (I lurk on another one but have never posted and use a different screen name) there is no way he would know about it. Out loud, the only person I've ever mentioned the word church to is my husband and he very much dislikes my family.

I'm not afraid of being DF'd and as far as I'm aware, legally I'm the only one who can DA myself and I don't have any intention of doing that, just not going anymore.

13

Let the shunning begin, apparently...(long-winded)

by lilbluekitty in

my father and i have been going back and forth on facebook in private messages.

it had been since august that my dad had contacted me, before i was beginning to "come out" about not wanting to be a jw, and actually i haven't actually stated that to any of my family or jw friends yet, as i was hoping to do the fade thing.. well i wrote to my dad and he has recently been very sr (self-righteous) lately and was copy/pasting "answers" to my questions right out of the wt cd-rom.

i called him on it and asked him to speak out of his heart.

lilbluekitty

My father and I have been going back and forth on Facebook in private messages. It had been since August that my dad had contacted me, before I was beginning to "come out" about not wanting to be a JW, and actually I haven't actually stated that to any of my family or JW friends yet, as I was hoping to do the fade thing.

Well I wrote to my dad and he has recently been very SR (self-righteous) lately and was copy/pasting "answers" to my questions right out of the WT CD-rom. I called him on it and asked him to speak out of his heart. Last night he sent me a message and since I went to bed early I didn't see it or respond quickly enough to his liking. This is what he said.

"Well, your silence tells me that you are inactive and are not going to meetings. Is it only that bad, or have you joined [my husband's] church? What does [my sister] and your mother know, and if so, what do they say? I'm hoping it isn't too late to say this, if you haven't joined his church probably by getting baptized there, please try to keep it that way. It's not a good thing to be inactive, but much worse to actually become a member of a false religion, worse than even immorality. It is called apostasy, and you will lose any and all FB friends that are Witnesses, especially family, and most distressing to me, even me. Am I speaking too late, or is there hope of you recovering? These are not threats, they will be realities if you should take that drastic action against us. I so hope I am wrong in fearing the worst. Can you please tell me truthfully what exactly is going on? Thank you."

Well I was flabbergasted. My last comment to him was of chiding him for not telling me to pray about it or go to the Bible for help and that he only copy/pasted WT articles to me without answering me from his heart.

So this is part of what I wrote back to him. Sorry it's so long. And by the way I never mentioned to him I wanted to join my husband's church or anything, the words I used are "spiritually digging." That's it! Things in brackets [] are things I didn't say to him but say to you guys to make it easier to understand our conversation.

"Wow are you jumping to conclusions. My silence was because I went to get my hair cut and went out to eat and when I got home I went straight to bed because I was tired, and my silence today was that I haven't bothered to turn on my laptop til now. Dude! I'm not joining his church or any church. [right now anyway, at least I never mentioned it to him] Don't assume anything about me "based on my silence" or my "attitude". I've been talking to mom, and even [my sister] yesterday. They know that I am just tired and I've always had a low self-esteem and I, like you and many others worry about getting destroyed, and they are allowing me to ask questions and though they base it on the publications they are also answering from their hearts, which is what I had hoped I'd get from you.

If I had started asking questions when I was perhaps 10 years old and was watching all the hypocrisy that was going on then[ ...] and it made me very angry and sad and again, made me have questions.

But, back then I truly believed you loved me and if I could have asked you questions back then, you would've sat me down next to you and looked at me with a worried face (you get those forehead wrinkles, you used to anyway) and said "Honey!" and not that fake voice you use now, "What's the matter? What happened that would make you ask these kind of questions? I think we need to pray about this first, and then you would have prayed out loud with me and then you would have really listened while I asked questions that now you would call me an apostate for?? Am I really so "mentally diseased?" Yes, I read that whole Watchtower article, that anyone that leaves the truth is an apostate and is "mentally diseased." True, that particular quote doesn't say exactly that but it's automatically assumed that if you stop being a JW (even an inactive one like me, though I've only missed about 3 1/2 months so perhaps I'm not even inactive officially) that I'm going around rolling in the aisles of churches and turning into a "rabid apostate" like that cousin of yours. When in reality I'm just confused about some organizational things, but instead of you or the family feeling concerned for me, and perhaps trying to comfort me and pray for me and kindly "readjust" my thinking, you are thisclose to turning on me?

That is certainly threatening but I don't view it as a threat. You are all so quick to turn on those you're supposed to love. I'm not even talking about mom because she's a different story. It's true [my sister] has said and done some terrible things but you are all so quick to block her and talk about her behind her back. [She's still an active JW] When I'm around you all I find myself doing the same things which is why I'm glad I moved back with my husband, where I'm supposed to be, at least now that I married "out of the Lord" anyway.

You want to throw around the word apostate just because I was reading a different Bible translation lately (for ease of getting my Bible reading done!) and I don't post my speeeeritual life all over FB (they've been telling us not to over and over again in talks, but I guess [my dad's mom] and [his sister] et al. haven't listened to those!) and plus I don't think it's anyone's business but Jehovah's whether not I make my hours or underline my Watchtower or even lay out my meeting clothes! Do I really want [my husband's] family to "become stumbled" about those type of things? Well then I'd surely be an "apostate" in your eyes, for leading them away form JWs! Then again it's "wrong" that I'm friends with them on Facebook, even though they're also my family now.

So go ahead and mark me, or even label me because you're so quick to jump to conclusions. You went for what, 8 years without speaking to me before? More? And mostly because mom turned us against you or outright refused to allow us to contact you because she was abusing us emotionally, physically, verbally and even spiritually. I only talk to her now because it's like she's a different person, at least outwardly. But you use defriending me on FB as a threat, oh I'm sorry, realities? I'm sorry, but it doesn't bother me. You all (perhaps the exception of [--] family because I didn't know them before, but I'm sure you'll be more than happy to turn them against me) have always been fair weather friends, or family. Quick to shun and even hate at the moment's notice or at even the assumption of any even minor wrongdoing. I'm used to it. Go ahead then, if that's what you see fit. I'm used to being ignored and even hated in this family.

I will leave you with this last thought: I thought we were supposed to imitate Jesus and show love to one another?"

*shakes head* I never mentioned anything about going to my husband's church or getting baptized there (I haven't) but he's ready to start shunning me already.

8

JW related murder case in WA state.

by JeffT in

jw
friends

this one has been under investigation for a number of years.

today an inquest jury ruled that what had previously been determined to be a suicide was in fact a murder.

they named the woman's ex husband as a suspect.

lilbluekitty

Craziness! I just read the article on Yahoo but it didn't say anyone was a JW.

21

Anything scary happen after you left or joined another religion?

by lilbluekitty in

i see i only get to post one thread a day so i'd better make this one count.. did anything scary or bad (besides shunning, etc.

) happen to you after you left?

what about if you decided to join another religion?.

lilbluekitty

I see I only get to post one thread a day so I'd better make this one count.

Did anything scary or bad (besides shunning, etc.) happen to you after you left? What about if you decided to join another religion?

I ask because I'm thinking of becoming a Christian (a regular one, not JW) and just thinking about it makes me scared. I believe there is a God, and I believe most of the Christian teachings (not so sure about hell and the trinity but whatever) but my parents always told me scary stories as a kid (and even as an adult) about what really happens when you "leave Jehovah."

My sister in law had a crazy-sounding experience the day she "accepted Christ" but she's never been a JW. She was telling me all this stuff about a bright light surrounding her, hearing God's voice speaking to her, how she just randomly started speaking in tongues (she's a Catholic, not Pentecostal) and such and I was like, dude I don't want that to happen to me! I remember when my husband wanted to become born again (he was raised Catholic but never liked it and just kind of floated along for awhile) and I told my dad about how he was going to get baptized and stuff and my dad was warning me all these scary things would happen, like accepting Christ in your heart was not really Christ but a creepy spirit (I don't like the d word, it creeps me out) because he said "the devil disguises himself as an angel of light" so that people would really think it was Jesus but that it wasn't really, a lot of other crap like that.

I have these anxiety attacks sometimes that I've left JWs for good and that my friends and family are getting persecuted but that I'm doing fine and then suddenly I'm about to be destroyed becaues I'm "on the wrong side of the fence" and want to come back but can't because it's too late and stuff. I've had this fear before I even really thought much about leaving the org, it seemed to start around the time I started flirting with my now-husband online I think, or whenever I did something "bad."

Other times I tell myself that God sees all the horrible things that happened in my life and that he doesn't blame me for how I've turned out and just wants me to find him. I try and think about it that way as much as possible but it's hard becaues it's just so ingrained in me that I'm "going to die in Armageddon because I'm bad for having doubts" and what have you. And of course now I'm "bad" for going on websites and commenting on them made my "apostate" former JWs. I think I mentioned before, my parents told me once you're an apostate you can't come back. I used to ask my dad, but what if they want to come back and they're sorry? He was like no way, they can't. *shakes head*

So did any of you try and join another religion? Did you have weird or scary experiences? Anything like that or am I just being paranoid?

I've just been fading out but I keep getting tempted to say things on my FB lately. I've been posting scriptures like "obey God rather than men" (the "borg", I like that one btw, I'm a TNG Trekkie) and about how we're saved by grace and not by works etc. and the weird thing is my JW friends and family actually click "like"! Weird.

OK, finally, a bit of humor that my husband and I really like from Family Guy. I want to use this as my avatar!! LOL.

38

New here - I'm pretty wordy, sorry

by lilbluekitty in

jw
friends

you can call me by my sceen name or just blue if you want lol.

i'm female (i don't know how to change my profile?

) and in my 20s.. i wondered, are any of you still jws who either lurk here or post and are on the fence about leaving?.

lilbluekitty

Factfinder, thank you for your experiences. Asperger's is a less-severe version of Autism, to put it very simply. Some are unable to verbalize what they want to say, others, like me are incredibly verbal but have very poor social skills and very skilled at certain things and very unskilled at others. For me, I'm very artistic, very into liguistics, languages, ect. but very poor at math, multi-tasking, following multiple directions, poor hand-eye coordination (one of the reasons I don't drive), I'm quite gullible, not always "getting" jokes and teasing, etc. You get the picture I think. As children they call us "little professors" because we can be very precoscious. Anyway, like I said, you get the idea. I'm really good at some things and really bad at other things.

Thank you, guys and gals =)

20

JWs and Jesus

by lilbluekitty in

jw
friends

as many of you already know, i was raised in the "truth", 3rd generation on my mother's side, 5th or something on my dad's side so i've been a jw for a long time, not so much now.. anyway, those of you who either spent a long time in the religion or who actually came from a regular christian religion first or became one later, did any of you notice how jws feel about jesus?

though they're supposed to be "true" christians, they don't talk about christ much or don't talk about his sacrifice much.

i know jws (and i) don't believe in the trinity but what's wrong with being more thankful to him for what he did for us?

lilbluekitty

@Ding, yes I got your PM, thank you. I was having trouble reading it at first and had to keep refreshing because I was getting blank or error pages but eventually was able to read it. Thank you, I will try it out =)

Thanks everyone.

This is a separate subject but I guess I can only post one thread a day here so my other question is I'm wondering if my baptism was valid? I got dunked in 2003 so I had the newer set of vow questions which included a bit about the organization but no real mention of the Father/Son/Holy Spirit in the same sentence so I'm a little confused about that. My husband is born-again and is unsure of the validity of it, too. I dedicated myself to Jehovah four years earlier (I have anxiety problems so I didn't get baptized right away) but if I want to be a Christian do I need to dedicate my life to God and Christ? I'm not sure.

109

Your most memorable Kingdom Hall meeting disruptions!

by easyreader1970 in

jw
friends

i remember about twenty years ago some teenagers were caught fornicating in one of the additional schools.

the schools were downstairs, essentially separated from the rest of the kh.

they weren't just happened upon, though.

lilbluekitty

Lots of things disrupted the meeting when I was younger, and even a few times when I got older.

When I was a teenager a little red-haired girl yelled out "Happy Birthday, Daddy!" while her dad was giving a talk. He had to stop for a second because he was blushing like crazy.

My mom told me the story of some brother who handled mics who went to the bathroom and had the mic in his back pocket. Well he thought he turned it off but he left it on so during the Watchtower study she said you could hear him peeing, flushing and washing his hands while the paragraph was being read. When he came back he didn't know why everyone was staring at him and turning red and laughing until the speaker said "Well at least he washed his hands." Wooo I wish I had been there, that sounds pretty awesome LOL.

Kids were always taken out to get spanked in the dreaded "back room", including my sister and I. Sometimes, in the KH I went to when I was little, since the bathroom was downstairs, you could hear the kid getting spanked during the meeting, and the mom or dad yelling at the kid saying "I TOLD you not do do such and such."

There were very few Memorial mishaps, strangely enough.

Supposedly the ceiling fell in during a song when my aunt was young and they think it had to do with the sister playing the piano (this was back in the 60s or 70s) too loudly. LOL.

I know brothers whose prayers went on and on and one in particular, I think it was Bro. Karamelis must've had Alzheimer's or something because his prayer went on so long and he kept saying the same things over and over that two brothers went up and escorted him off the platform and someone else finished the prayer.

The lights went out during a crazy thunderstorm right before the final song. A bro. stood up on the platform and was holding a flashlight and was asking if anyone wanted to sing acapella but nobody could see their song books so they just ended the meeting, no final prayer or anything.

I've got more, I'll probably come back to this thread later, hilarious stuff guys!!

26

Ban Sisters from wearing pants/slacks!!! Why? Who "wears the pants" at the hall?

by Witness 007 in

in 1979 my mum was studying and came to the meeting in a womens suit with pants/slacks.

she was told by her teacher not to wear pants to the meetings only dresses.

well, my mother never wore pants again....ever!

lilbluekitty

Aha! I found some of the private messages on FB my JW family members wrote me after that FB fiasco. I never did reply back to these.

Cousin K- I agree that pants can sometimes be more modest. I don't think modesty is the issue with pants. Some skirts and blouses are immodest--and I'm not necessarily talking about short skirts or low-cut necklines. Much of today's fashion is described by fashion writers and designers as "sexy". Would a Christian woman want to be seen as "sexy" in light of what Jesus says at Matt. 5: 27, 28. Would a Christian sister purposely dress in a way to cause a man to look at her with sexual longing? So as Jehovah's people we want to avoid any kind of dress that is immodest. The issue with pants, though, is much what has been stated before. We are a "theatrical spectacle to the world". If you wanted to make a really good impression on a potential boss, a judge or government official, which form of dress do you think would make the best impression? My brother and sister-in-law were competing with others for the house they now rent. They got it because the owner was impressed that they came for the interview in meeting clothes--suit and tie, and dress and low heels. She felt that since they showed self-respect and respect for her, that they would properly care for the house. In western culture, dresses or skirts and blouses, suits for men, are still considered the best choice when wanting to make a good impression, not on Jehovah nor the brothers or sisters, but on those who observe us. Paul said at 2 Cor 6:3 "In no way are giving any cause for stumbling, that our ministry might not be found fault with." Let the things they say about us in a negative way be lies, things they fabricate, rather than give them ammunition. Whether we like it or not, the way we dress speaks volumes about us. Otherwise, there would be no value in books like "Dress for Success". If we went to the meetings and out in the ministry looking like the world, they would think we are part of the world. But our appearance can appeal to the hearts of those who are righteously inclined. Right away, by our dress we show we are different. And isn't it true? If you are eating at a restaurant after the meeting or while traveling on a weekend, and people come in dressed in suits and ties and dresses, don't you just assume they are our brothers? We've met some nice witnesses when traveling just from that one fact. Same thing after a convention. When we were in Las Vegas, the better restaurants had a dress code. Men were required to wear a shirt, tie and jacket or sweater, and women had to wear a dress. (Of course, being Las Vegas they probably did accept men in drag....rolls eyes). Just illustrating how dress is important not just to us but the world. I don't think any of us are trying to impose our opinions on you. You do what you think is appropriate. We are all just trying to explain to you why we do what we do. You see, the churches have lowered their standards over the years. Up until the early 70's no one would think of going into a church attired any other way but in a suit for a man and dress or skirt and blouse for a woman. But they lowered their standards when people stopped coming to church. Churches started closing down because there was not enough money to keep them going. So they thought by lowering the dress code they would attract a bigger attendance. As the years have gone by, that dress code has gone downhill even more--more here, I think than in the south, especially [location]. But we are not governed by the fashions of the world, nor by its standards for morality. Here again, our dress indicates we have a different standard for morality. Jesus is the one who said we are to be no part of the world. That is not a man-made rule. When someone writes somethings, it is often difficult to catch the tone of voice. If I was talking to you directly, you would understand I have deep respect for you. And I have a desire to help you find your place in Jehovah's congregation. That is true also of your grandmother, your father and your Aunt. You are more than family to us. You are also our spiritual sister. We have your relationship with Jehovah in mind when we talk to you. Some of the other people who left comments love you also. But they are also part of the world and reflect the world's thinking. So , please keep that in mind. I know, I can go on and on and on. But I hope most sincerely it has helped you. Hang in there sweety. You are very much loved by Jehovah!

Then my aunt and grandmother each replied saying *amen*.

Then my father's wife (read my first post on the forum for background) said: Very well said K and right on target. One older Greek brother used to comment about the Catholic's saying they go to church in their "BVD's". We see it with the church right down the street. I think my meeting clothes attire made a good impression when I was hired for my job. As a receptionist I am the first person they see and represent the company so being modest and well arranged is important. People do judge by first appearances.

There ya go, straight from JWs.

20

JWs and Jesus

by lilbluekitty in

jw
friends

as many of you already know, i was raised in the "truth", 3rd generation on my mother's side, 5th or something on my dad's side so i've been a jw for a long time, not so much now.. anyway, those of you who either spent a long time in the religion or who actually came from a regular christian religion first or became one later, did any of you notice how jws feel about jesus?

though they're supposed to be "true" christians, they don't talk about christ much or don't talk about his sacrifice much.

i know jws (and i) don't believe in the trinity but what's wrong with being more thankful to him for what he did for us?

lilbluekitty

As many of you already know, I was raised in the "truth", 3rd generation on my mother's side, 5th or something on my dad's side so I've been a JW for a long time, not so much now.

Anyway, those of you who either spent a long time in the religion or who actually came from a regular Christian religion first or became one later, did any of you notice how JWs feel about Jesus? Though they're supposed to be "true" Christians, they don't talk about Christ much or don't talk about his sacrifice much. I know JWs (and I) don't believe in the trinity but what's wrong with being more thankful to him for what he did for us? Why do they only thank Jehovah for things? If Jesus is supposed to be the one that's going to judge us in the end, shouldn't we center things around him more?

I don't know if he should actually be worshipped or even prayed to, it's hard to get straight answers on that sometimes. Most JWs say it's wrong to worship or pray to Jesus. But can't he be more revered? I think that's why JWs are called that, because they focus pretty much only on Jehovah and act like Jesus was just a good man and that's basically it.

Have any of you "accepted" Christ? What does that even mean? When I got baptized, I was pretty sure they only mention Jehovah, not Jesus when we do the two questions? Or in the name of Jah at least? Anyone have a recent copy of what we say yes to?

I ask because my husband's family is hoping I become just a "normal" Christian but I don't know what all that entails yet. I know to JWs joining another religion is automatic apostacy. But I figure they' d already call me that for talking about any of this to other people and all I've said to my husband in critisism of the religion. *sigh* When I was a kid that was the last thing I wanted to be. My parents told me once you're an apostate you can never come back to being a JW. Who knows. I don't hate or disbelieve God or Jesus for that matter. I am not telling anyone not to be a JW, if they want to it might be good for them, at least for awhile. But for those that never question it, maybe ignorance is bliss, so I don't ever tell anyone not to be one.

But anyway, if any of you became another type of Christian, let me know how it went, how you did it, etc. I'm on the fence about it.