JOSEPHUS SAYS THE TEMPLE LAY DESOLATE FOR 50 YEARS
"These accounts agree with the true history in our books; for in them it is written that Nebuchadnezzar, in the eighteenth year of his reign, laid our temple desolate, and so it lay in that state of obscurity for fifty years; but that in the second year of the reign of Cyrus, its foundations were laid, and it was finished again in the second year of Darius." - Extract from "Flavius Josephus Against Apion" 1.21
It seems that some people mix up the seventy years of servitude mentioned in Jeremiah 25:11 (which included "all these nations") with the period during which "the land had enjoyed its sabbaths" (2 Chronicles 36:21). However, the scriptures simply show that the "sabbaths" finished at the end of the seventy year period.
A period of 49 years of seven sabbaths followed by a 50th Jubilee year when land returned to its original owners was recognized by the Israelites as part of their law of land redemption:
"You are also to count off seven sabbaths of years for yourself, seven times seven years, so that you have the time of the seven sabbaths of years, namely, forty-nine years. You shall then sound a ram's horn abroad on the tenth day of the seventh month; on the day of atonement you shall sound a horn all through your land. You shall consecrate the fiftieth year and proclaim a release through the land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a jubilee for you, and each of you shall return to his own property, and each of you shall return to his family." - Leviticus 25:8-10 (NASB)
"The land, moreover, shall not be sold permanently, for the land is Mine; for you are but aliens and sojourners with Me. Thus for every piece of your property, you are to provide for the redemption of the land" - Leviticus 25:23-24 (NASB)
Posts by JWB
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3Josephus says the temple lay desolate for 50 years
by JWB injosephus says the temple lay desolate for 50 years.
"these accounts agree with the true history in our books; for in them it is written that nebuchadnezzar, in the eighteenth year of his reign, laid our temple desolate, and so it lay in that state of obscurity for fifty years; but that in the second year of the reign of cyrus, its foundations were laid, and it was finished again in the second year of darius.
" - extract from "flavius josephus against apion" 1.21. .
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JWB
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marriage without affection/sex/touching
by zeb inyes thats my situation.
some where along the path of life the wt guilt trip was dumped on our marriage and we havent had sex for years.. anyone else?
the hearts and flowers and gifts and doing the cleaning, the house work and paying the daily accounts never being drunk on drugs playing the horses or screwing others yep its all there but nothing coming back due to the wt guilt trip.. they made so much of 'oral sex' and 'pornea' incorrectly quoted at that and ventured thereby into areas they were patently very ill equipped to comment on.
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JWB
Having some sort of control in the sex live's of a couple is a powerful tool in helping to diminish the strength of the bond between those two people. When it comes to the WTS, it is my opinion that they would rather a person have a deeper bond with 'the organization'. Since 'the organization' is not a sexual being it cannot tempt persons to engage in extramarital sex with the possibility of creating another strong bond with them. So it has to try other ways of getting a person to put their partner in second place.
Control of the sexual union is one method. They know that when a couple give themselves fully to each other in sex that will only help to deepen the connection between them. The great pleasure and reliance on each other in the sexual union draws them closer together. That is why I think some relationships fail when either or both partners allow the WTS to come between them.
Unfortunately I think there has been so much guilt plastered on JWs regarding sex that it can seriously impact on the ability to relax and enjoy what the WTS must admit is a gift from God. My advice to those who have left the organization but have a partner still inside is to make sure this aspect of your life, if possible, continues to be important and something you regularly engage in. Becoming sexually distant from your partner will only make it easier for them to drift away from you emotionally and cling more to 'the organization'. -
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Do NOT be mislead, False Prophets will not inherit Gods Kingdom yet THAT is what some of you were!
by Greybeard inyes many of us here were false prophets parroting the wts/gb/jworg's false teachings for years.
"new lite" = time ran out... has anyone noticed how the wts keeps quoting genesis 6:3, the scripture on a generation lasting 120 years?
they did it again in yesterdays wt study.
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JWB
The Son will rise on the THIRD 'day'!
A 'day' = 1,000 years in God's sight, so the third 'day' would start in the third millenium. When did Jesus die? About 33 CE. Add 2,000 years to 33 CE, what do we get? Why 2033 CE! Don't forget you heard this 'New Light' here first! ;0) -
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UK child abuse lawyer contact details (keep bumping this thread)
by cedars ini've already received enquiries from those interested in hiring a lawyer to pursue their own child abuse claims in the wake of the candace conti verdict.
obviously, rick simons has excelled in his handling of the case, but i'm sure it wouldn't be practical for him to represent each-and-every potential client who are victims of child abuse.
i am thinking particularly of victims of molesters in the uk, where i am from.. i have no legal experience, and i am not personally acquianted with any lawyers specializing in this field.
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JWB
"Now in case a soul sins in that he has heard public cursing and he is a witness or he has seen it or has come to know of it, if he does not report it, then he must answer for his error." - Leviticus 5:1 (NWT)
I think that not reporting child abuse is FAR more important and reprehensible than not reporting public cursing, don't you?
You know there is a saying: "God helps those who help themselves". The old saying "waiting on Jehovah" can encourage some not to take moral responsibility. Imagine those who could have helped Jews during the holocaust saying, "Let's just wait on the Allied forces!" Thank goodness for people like Schindler who didn't wait.
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www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/223572/1/List-of-Trustees-for-Congregations-of-JWs-in-England-and-Wales-2011
www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/223644/1/List-of-Trustees-for-WTS-Charities-in-England-and-Wales-2012
www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/217902/1/UK-Congregations-of-Jehovahs-Witnesses
www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/218193/1/UK-Congregations-of-Jehovahs-Witnesses-2-Interactive -
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How many of the general public will know that Isaiah 65:17 was fulfilled over two and a half thousand years ago (according to the WTS)?
by JWB inhow many of the general public will know that isaiah 65:17 was fulfilled over two and a half thousand years ago (according to the wts)?.
would you like to wake up every morning with happy, positive thoughts?.
that's exactly what the bible promises us for the future.
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JWB
HOW MANY OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC WILL KNOW THAT ISAIAH 65:17 WAS FULFILLED OVER TWO AND A HALF THOUSAND YEARS AGO (ACCORDING TO THE WTS)?
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Would you like to wake up every morning with happy, positive thoughts?
That's exactly what the Bible promises us for the future. Our heavenly Father, Jehovah God, tells us:
"Here I am creating a new heavens and a new earth; and the former things will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart."--Isaiah 65:17 [NWT]
Are you interested in knowing how that promise will be fulfilled?
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Thus declares the leaflet which advertises to the general public the coming District Assembly of JWs. You will notice it points to Isaiah 65:17 as being fulfilled in our future.
Yet this is what Insight I, page 1061 ('New heavens and new earth', paragraph 2) says about the fulfillment of this scripture:
"Even as the 'earth' can refer to a society of people (Ps 96:1; see EARTH), so, too, 'heavens' can symbolize the superior ruling power or government over such 'earth.' The prophecy presenting the promise of 'new heavens and a new earth,' given through Isaiah, was one dealing initially with the restoration of Israel from Babylonian exile. Upon the Israelites' return to their homeland, they entered into a new system of things. Cyrus the Great was used prominently by God in bringing about that restoration. Back in Jerusalem, Zerubbabel (a descendant of David) served as governor, and Joshua as high priest. In harmony with Jehovah’s purpose, this new governmental arrangement, or 'new heavens,' directed and supervised the subject people. (2Ch 36:23; Hag 1:1, 14) Thereby, as verse 18 of Isaiah chapter 65 foretold, Jerusalem became 'a cause for joyfulness and her people a cause for exultation.'"
Also, Insight II, page 497 ('New Jerusalem', paragraph 2) says:
"In 537 B.C.E., Jehovah created 'new heavens and a new earth' when the Jewish remnant was restored to Jerusalem from Babylonian exile. (Isa 65:17) Evidently the governorship of Zerubbabel (a descendant of David) aided by High Priest Joshua, at the city of Jerusalem, constituted the 'new heavens' then. (Hag 1:1, 14; see HEAVEN [New heavens and new earth].)"
So, according to the WTS, Isaiah 65:17 was talking about "the restoration of Israel from Babylonian exile", something not mentioned in the leaflet. Of course those two little words 'initial fulfillment' will no doubt be utilised for any who might discover that it was actually talking about ancient post-exilic Israelites! -
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When 'this' means 'that', 'you' means 'someone else' and 'shortly' means 'so far in the future you will be long buried and forgotten'
by JWB inwhen 'this' means 'that', 'you' means 'someone else' and 'shortly' means 'so far in the future you will be long buried and forgotten'.
"so he groaned deeply with his spirit, and said: 'why does this generation seek a sign?
truly i say, no sign will be given to this generation.
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JWB
Thanks darthfader.
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"In 331 BC Babylon was conquered by Alexander the Great, who attempted to rebuild the venerated but decaying city. With his untimely death its long decline set in and in the Roman period it was no more than a famous heap of ruins." - Extract from 'Archaeological Encyclopedia of the Holy Land' [2001 edition - ISBN 0-8264-1316-1], page 67, 'Babylon (City Of); Babylonians'
Thus was the state of Babylon when the apostle John, the supposed author of Revelation, was alive. It was hardly a magnificent city which would fall as described in Revelation chapter 18.
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"And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified." - Revelation 11:8 (NASB)
The place where 'their Lord was crucified' was not literal Sodom or Egypt, but in the land of Israel. Thus symbolic or 'mystical' language was used. Similarly in Isaiah chapter one the obvious reference is to Israel, yet they are referenced at one point as 'you rulers of Sodom' and 'you people of Gomorrah' whose burnt offerings God had 'had enough of' (verses 10 and 11). So, when the Revelation speaks of Babylon, I don't believe it is necessarily a literal reference to that particular place. It could represent a place that manifested the traits of ancient Babylon. Some have suggested first century Jerusalem in particular as being 'Babylon' in the light of such writings as those of historian Josephus.
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Obviously, objections will come from those who hold to the belief that Revelation was written some time after the destruction of Jerusalem. However, the exact dating of that book is unknown. The WTS relies on what it admits is 'ancient tradition', based on the ante-Nicene Church document 'Acts of the Holy Apostle and Evangelist John the Theologian' (Insight Vol II, 'Patmos'). As an aside, I find it interesting that the WTS are prepared to appeal to the writings and beliefs (including a supposed 'ancient tradition') of early 'apostate Christianity' if it seems of some use to them.
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Some of us believe that 'this generation' really meant 'this generation', that 'you' (plural) really meant 'you', and that 'shortly' actually meant 'shortly'. In other words that what was said to those first century people about the future had an immediate connection with them right there in the first century.
This is quite a subject for study in itself, so I will leave it for any who are not familiar with the arguments pro and con to research it for themselves. However, for those new to the idea of a first century fulfillment of Matthew 24 and Revelation, the 'classic' text, in my view, is "The Parousia" by J Stuart Russell (ISBN 0-8010-7725-7). Although this book is quite lengthy, I consider it essential reading on the subject. More modern treatments of this topic can be found which give a quicker introduction into the idea of a first century fulfillment, such as 'The Last Days According To Jesus' by R C Sproul (ISBN 978-0-8010-6340-4). -
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Anyone Besides Me Have Difficulty Saying The Word "Jehovah"?
by Low-Key Lysmith ineven when i was a devout witless, i always winced a bit when i heard or especially had to utter "jehovah".
it's just one of those uncomfortable words to say like "colostomy", "vagina", or "erectile dysfunction"..
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JWB
Well, apparently Jesus had trouble saying it in his day-to-day conversations and prayers. Only the NWT has him saying the word "Jehovah" when he quotes from the Scriptures, but that is just an assumption of theirs. Anyway, he wouldn't have used J or V (rather I/Y and U/W). However, what is not disputed in the gospels is that his preferred way of addressing God was 'heavenly father'. So, if there is any 'correct' way to address God, from a Christian perspective, it would have to be 'heavenly father' in immitatiion of Jesus.
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When 'this' means 'that', 'you' means 'someone else' and 'shortly' means 'so far in the future you will be long buried and forgotten'
by JWB inwhen 'this' means 'that', 'you' means 'someone else' and 'shortly' means 'so far in the future you will be long buried and forgotten'.
"so he groaned deeply with his spirit, and said: 'why does this generation seek a sign?
truly i say, no sign will be given to this generation.
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JWB
Londo1, you made a good point.
"[S]o that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on *earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon THIS generation. Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. Behold, your house is being left to you desolate" - Matthew 23:35-38 (NASB)
"'Rejoice over her, O heaven, and you saints and apostles and prophets, because God has pronouced judgment for you against her.' Then a strong angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, 'So will Babylon, the great city, be thrown down with violence, and will not be found any longer.'" "And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the *earth." - Revelation 18:20, 21, 24 (NASB) [Compare also Revelation 18:23 with Jeremiah 7:34.]
The underlying Greek word (ges), from which we get the English translation of 'earth', is found in our English word GEology, and basically means 'soil', but can also mean 'land'. What it does not mean is 'globe'! That is why some people consider these scriptures to reference the 'the land' (Heb. 'ha-arets') of Israel.
Revelation chapter 18 is also extremely interesting to compare with Ezekiel chapter 16 where Jerusalem is likened to a harlot who will have judgments brought against her. -
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The light keeps diminishing
by Slidin Fast intoday's wt says it all.
read this, it accurately portrays the last 50 years of fading light from the saddest bunch of con-men in history.. 15 to answer, imagine that you are reading a book by the light of a 100-watt bulb, but then the bulb fails.
since you are left in the dark, you immedi- ately notice what happened and replace the burned-out bulb with a new one.
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JWB
"The words of the wise ones are like oxgoads, and just like nails driven in are those indulging in collections [of sentences]; they have been given from one shepherd. As regards anything besides these, my son, take a warning: To THE MAKING OF MANY BOOKS THERE IS NO END, AND MUCH DEVOTION [TO THEM] IS WEARISOME TO THE FLESH." - Ecclesiastes 12:11-12 (NWT)
Wouldn't it be a lot less wearisome and 'lighter' just to study the Bible (for those still interested) than the constant flow of literature? It would also be more environmentally friendly.
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Do apostates voices represent voices of strangers?
by Mr Facts inhow the voice of strangers is heard today.
10 deceptive reasonings.
the apostle paul states: do not be carried away with various and strange teachings.
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JWB
"When persons are in great danger from a source that they do not suspect or are being misled by those they consider their friends, is it an unkindness to warn them? They may prefer not to believe the warning. They may even resent it. But does that free one from the moral responsibility to give that warning?" - Watch. 15 Jan 1974 (page 35, "Can You Be True to God, Yet Hide the Facts?")