Suppose I am trying to establish a fantastic new world order in which hunger would disappear ,no man exploited by another man , no homeless people , no unemployed ,and many more beautiful arrangements and I have masses that go with me - millions of people but I see you as a rich self- independent man who wants to go his own way of indpendent thinking and do things otherwise which is against what I and my followers want to do ! Should we allow you to disturb our plans or rather remove that person from the face of the earth ?
Posts by OBVES
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OBVES
If we did so the scenario of the end time era would be disturbed and there would be no end of the world soon. There must be one small group of servants from the class of 144000 that is united and has its flock to feed and one seperate servant - the last one of 144000 to make Luke 9.49-50 the end-time reality.
To save a day you would have to come up with another christian organization to replace Jehovah Witness Organization and you would have to prove your organization is better and moreover you would have to link your organization to the specific dates that would reflect the times when Christ and his first disciples lived and preached the true christian religion. I doubt you can do it even if you resort to the most gifted pastors ,priests and use the most advanced electronic brains to produce better dates !
I will remind the following:
7 BC = 1879 AD 2 BC = 1884 AD 11 AD = 1891 AD 29 AD = 1914 AD 33 AD = 1918 AD 36 AD = 1921 AD
106 AD = 1914 AD 70 AD = 1950 AD 36 AD = 1984 AD 33 AD = 1988 AD 29 AD = 1991 AD
I gave the explanations for these dates in my posts.
The Book of Revelation fits into this timeline: chapters 1-11 : 1914 AD - 1984 AD - 1991 AD + chapters 12-22: 1914 AD - 1984 AD - 1991 AD +
Try to come up with another time division of the Book of Revelation .And you have to explain the seals ,trumpets and bowls that are given in Apocalypse .
Note also you have to identify besides your organization that one single seperate servant (claiming to be the last of 144000 class ) who is not against your organization to make Luke 9.49-50 fulfilled.
The line I am giving is :
The International Bible Students .... Jehovah's Witnesses linked to the dates : 1879 AD,1884 AD,1914 AD and one seperate servant linked to: 1950 AD,1984 AD,1991 AD
If we mix together dates we can see :
7 BC = 1879 AD 2 BC = 1884 AD 29 AD = 1914 AD
106 AD = 1914 AD 70 AD = 1950 AD 36 AD=1984 AD 29 AD=1991 AD
We have a copy of the times when Christ and his first great servants lived !
7 BC - 2 BC - 29 AD - 33 AD - 36 AD - 70 AD - 106 AD
1879 AD - 1884 AD - 1914 AD - 1950 AD - 1984 AD - 1988 AD - 1991 AD
And who is covered by both timelines ? !
Christ + his first great servants and in our times: the International Bible Students and Jehovah's Witnesses who have the remnant of 144000 servants in their ranks and one person extra must be considered as per Luke 9.49-50 .And it happened by Yahweh's grace He chose me in His Son Jesus to be that one seperate servant as I am proving by the dates I came up with using calculations based on the Bible.
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OBVES
You have to learn how any organization works . There are basic principles of existence for any organization.
If you read the Watchtower publications you may decide you agree with what they write and be of the mind by joining the organization.
All people in organization are expected to be one-minded ,united in one set of doctrines .That is why the organization exists and the unity sustains the organization. The unity can be of the paramount importance especially when a given organization is in the hostile environment . Check the history of the Soviet Union how the state came into existence and kept going in a very hostile environment from within and outside that country. It seems to me that many people ( they must be young not knowing the history well or not experiencing it well ) have no idea what they are writing about. The Jehovah Witness organization must and should be governed by very strict rules . If you don't like it you can go on your own and put yourself at risk . You cannot fight the people who want to stay in the organization and put their own ideas if any and stick to what the Watchtower is teaching them. Originally they surrendered their independence to be in the organization as one unified body of believers . If that unity is broken the whole organization will cease to exist.
You can see that what has happened to the former Soviet Union .Or look at Iraq how the unity was kept when Sadam was in power and what has happned later on. Why the Communist China is attacking Dai Lama who desires and independence for Tibetans ? The Chinese government knows that DaI Lama may break up the whole country if his wishes are satisfied. What happened to the Soviet Union once the one or two republics began to fight for independence ?! Why Russia is not allowing Chechna to become a new independent state ? One person already poses a danger to the whole big country that is China. Before you start attacking Jehovah's Witness organization read the books how organizations come into existence and how they function in very hostile environment.You are not solving a problem with your independent thinking you may be creating a problem ! Go to the history books and learn to think with common sense !
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Were You Ever Into Bible Prophecy?
by minimus ini wasn't.
i thought most of the stuff was ridiculous!.
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OBVES
I have explained profusely that Jehovah's Witnesses are the best religious organization. Find me another one that surpasses them ! If you will not find don't criticize them as you will be fighgting God of the Bible !
You have to have a good reliable subsitute if you are not a Jehovah's Witness . I am not because I have a reliable substitude based on the Bible. Look how many of those who left the Jehovah Witness Organization after the 1975 prediction failed ended up very badly ! If they had come with a new better understanding of the Bible and stronger faith would be another story but they had changed for worse like they went from the frying pan into the fire ! And nobody with common sense would like that !
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How do angels and demons influence mankind?
by onacruse inwts publications, and indeed virtually all religions on this planet, assert that angels and demons have regular influence on mankind, on individual human beings as well as on the general course of human events.. but i've never read anything specific about how they supposedly accomplish this.. do they tweak our neurons?
do they fiddle with our hormones, thereby making us feel good or bad about a certain course of action?
do they inject thoughts into our brains, perhaps in such a subtle way that we think those are our own thoughts?
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OBVES
And note if you misunderstood my simple explanations how in the world you could come to understanding on your own how angels and demons influence people !
The workings of angels and demons are secret ! Try to decode the workings of the most secretive organization. It is like trying to go into details how the best-organized spy agency is working .
You should learn some tacticts the agents can use to hide their activities.
The Bible has numerous secrets that must be decoded and it may take generations to uncover them.
So is with the learning how angels or demons can work . Using common sense which most people lack when they face the Bible can already give some good results.
A demon doesn't have to exert his influence on many people.
Suppose he has an access to his special apparatus one hour a day on a distant planet ( millions light away from our earth ).He must use the time most efficiently to bring desired results if he wants to sleep restfully without other demons kicking him in the stomach for doing nothing in one hour period he was permitted.
So , the demon ( identified as ,say, " A16478 " has a vision of what is going on earth and he now must use the time in the best possible way .He will not try influence a regular guy on earth but a person who has a huge influence on world events. He will pick up the best protestant preacher to deceive his many followers farther away to keep them in a false religion.He will pick up someone like the president of a country who will establish laws forbidding Jehovah's Witnesses activities etc.
Humans have sinful weak nature that influneces their patterns of life and demons mostly are not needed to influence what people do !
Influence on the part of demons does't necessarily mean people under such influence must do the bad things - the final decision what to do lies with people.
You confused the influence with the very acts that can be a result of influence but it doesn't have to be that way.
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Top signs that JWs are a CULT
by Black Man ini've been gathering info on cults and i know we've had several threads about the top warning signs that jws are a cult.
can anyone point me to those links?
or post up any new observations about it in this thread.
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OBVES
What you are giving about cults is a total misunderstanding ! The world doesn't determine which religion is true or a cult. You must go by what God Yahweh set up in the Bible.Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult the way it is shown in Acts 28.22. It was a different cult - the true christianity.
Jehovah's Witnesses have one of the best understanding of the Bible ! Show me another cult which is better. By the way the word cult is a curious word that can be interpreted in at least two ways.
There is a cult in Poland for instance which is the cult of the Virgin Mary and has a positive connotation for most Polish people and they would be glad to hear from you they have a cult of Virgin Mary .
The proper word is "sect ". And that word is used in Acts 28.22.
If you use the word " cult " it will not express the word "sect ".
Catholic religion arose from a sect . Protestant religions will be as sects now to the Catholic Church.
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How do angels and demons influence mankind?
by onacruse inwts publications, and indeed virtually all religions on this planet, assert that angels and demons have regular influence on mankind, on individual human beings as well as on the general course of human events.. but i've never read anything specific about how they supposedly accomplish this.. do they tweak our neurons?
do they fiddle with our hormones, thereby making us feel good or bad about a certain course of action?
do they inject thoughts into our brains, perhaps in such a subtle way that we think those are our own thoughts?
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OBVES
When we study the Bible we must recognize it is from God Yahweh . We have to bear in mind it is God's Word . The Bible is a reflection of the infinte mind of God Yahweh. And we under no condition are to discredit the Bible. You may not find the answers to many issues but there might be other people who understand or the right understanding may come hundreds years later !
How angels and demons can influence the evil people ?
They have the powers to do so and God allows them to influence people .
They can be on a far distant planet in this universe , say 1000 light years away and they can know what is going on on our earth .
You have to understand how God gives power to man to do things .
Every movement of matter is by God's power. So if you lift your hand to kill a chicken God executes your special way of thinking as He moves the matter ( each particle of your hand ) . He does so as He gave the power to man to live and do things.
Angels can be thousands light years away but by doing some operations they can influence people within the given limits .
To make it simple to understand .An angel is taking some time from his life on another distant planet and sits down like you can sit and work with the computer and by pressing proper buttons that represent something he can influnce somebody to do something.
A demon can also use special equipment being on another distant planet ( his living place) and the buttons he presses represent different kinds of influences he can do on people on earth.
If you are under influence of a demon he can press one button on his equipment that represents a fire to make you angry and blame God and your house is burned here on earth . The fire is a physical process and of course God Yahweh creates any fire ! Any physical process that takes place in this universe is done by the power of God. But since God gave some powers to other beings He executes their thinking - powers.
It is God Yahweh that creates each and every snowflake fallling on earth and you can collect some flakes and make a ball and hit somebody maliciously .
The movement of the snowball is of course the movement of matter and God moves and sustains each particle of the universe .So, by His power given to you to live you can think in such specific way that your hand moves by the movement of your hand is taking place by God's power that moves matter.God Yahweh is everywhere in every part of the universe- in every particle !
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Were You Ever Into Bible Prophecy?
by minimus ini wasn't.
i thought most of the stuff was ridiculous!.
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OBVES
One of the most distinctive characteristics of the true religion is that it deals with prophecies. Read the Bible and other sacred books and see how huge difference exists between the Bible and all other sacred books the world knows. Since the Jews gave us the Bible so you should keep in mind that the Jewish sacred writings that are also in the Bible will be the exception.
The end times prophecies are in the Bible . So the people of Israel were taught them. If you are in a religion that does not teach about the prophecies your religion is fruitless. Jehovah's Witnesses are known to be preoccupied with the end time prophecies which is to their huge advantage over most religions of the world.
Have you heard about Harold Camping ? He is predicting like me the end of the world in 2011 AD. His prediction alone puts him ahead of most religions of the world ! Why ? Because he has come with the prediction using the Bible. Hank Hanegraaff known on the radio as Bible-Answer-Man is far behind Harold Camping because he is against making the end time predictions !
To cut it nicely .Avoid any religion or independent preachers who are not into the prophecies of the Bible ! Simple as that !
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The Watchtower and Year 2012
by NomadSoul ini'm curios of what the watchtower society thinks about the year 2012. i think they russell should've used the mayan calendar, and not the pyramids.
at least he would have something in common with the rest of the prophets.
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OBVES
Good predictions ? Only one is needed and till now all had failed ! Good predictions are such predictions that are based on the Bible and made by the true christian servants.And the number is 144000 and since the first christians died there was not single one up untill the time of the revival of the true christianity.
All predictions made after 106 AD up to the year 1879 AD can be easily put aside as unacceptable .
I am introducing here a specific period of 1773 years which can hide "666" as 1+7+7+3 = 18 .
The first end time prediction we should expect from the mouth of anyone who claims to be one of 144000 menservants and is covered by Luke 9.49-50 .There is one small united group of Christ's disciples belonging to 144000 and one seperate disciple .
So according to the Bible we must try to identify those individuals today if our times are the end times. We must have proofs our time is the end time era. To do that we must prove the Bible is for our times.To prove that we must prove we are living in the times that are reminiscent of the times when Christ and his first disciples lived.
If you read my posts I am superimposing the dates from the times of Christ and his disciples upon true christian servants as spoken in Luke 9.49-50 who must be living in our end times.
The following line of predictions : 1991 AD,1994 AD,1999 AD,2000 AD,2001 AD,2004 AD ,2005 AD and 2011 AD is the line that is accurately based on the understanding of the Bible reserved by God Yahweh for the end times- Daniel 12.4.
The pyramids in Egypt or mayan calendar have nothing to do with these predictions.Even if the end of the world would occur in 2012 AD it will help you nothing unless you are approved of God Yahweh as His child .You must have the true worship of God Yahweh and only the Bible gives the principles of that worship .
How to look at the earlier predictions starting with the year 1879 AD up to 1991 AD ? If they were made by true servants of Christ - who belong to the class of 144000 - we can consider them as incomplete but good at the time when they were made. it was the time of the much incomplete understanding of the Bible. Taze Russell might have looked to pyramids in Egypt for some kind of additional help to prove his point a move which today could be also acceptable . In my calculations I am using a calendar that was not in existence when God was giving the Bible . Any predictions dating from 150 AD to 1879 AD can be totally ignored.
Note the period 106 AD-150 AD .It was the period of gradual disappearing of the true christian religion.The Book of Revelation given in 96 AD seems to hide the date 106 AD.Revelation 2.10 : 10 days = 10 years 96 AD + 10 years = 106 AD
So , no predictions were allowed after 106 AD.
The best era for the end time predictions began in 1984 AD.And the first valid one was for 1991 AD. It seems that we may have 20 years left from 1991 AD and each year could have been predicted as the year of the end of the world but to show that we are dealing with the predictions based on the understanding of the Bible some dates are omitted. And now we have the last left : 2011 AD. 2005 AD and the next 2011 AD.
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If Adam did not sin, would humans have lived forever on earth?
by jwfacts inthe new testament talks consistently of a heavenly hope, not an earthly one and the idea that humans are to live forever on earth is not supported scripturally at all.. however, what would have happened if adam and eve had not sinned.
the watchtower likes to make the point that it is only sin that caused adam and eve to die.
romans 5:12 that is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned.. what do christians believe regarding this scripture?
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OBVES
The future order in the resurrection helps us understand what was lost when Adam and Eve sinned .We must bear in mind that what was lost had to be restored .
Adam now is represented by Christ and Eve by Christ's church of the first born : 144000 menservants.
Christ and 144000 will have the spiritual body which was misinterpreted throughout the ages . The spiritual body is a physical body made in God's way ; as God had established according to His Spirit.
The heaven now is not a place but a spiritual condition ( a state ).
Christ entered the heaven which means he got the most perfect physical body sinless and ageless for ever.The same applies to his 144000 men - the greatest christian servants.
All will be ruling on this earth ! Literally as people understand it nobody will go to heaven. As heaven is now the best spiritual state reserved for the best servants of Yahweh as given above.
God Yahweh promised after the Flood he would never destroy the earth again.2 Peter 3.5-7 is commonly misunderstood . Read carefully what heavens were destroyed in Flood ! Why heavens if the water flooded the earth only ? And what new heavens are in place ? It cannot be literal heavens ! So the fire that will destroy the new heavens doesn't have to be a literal fire as well .Even if it is a literal fire it will destroy bad people; it will be destruction of the evil heavens ,not physical heavens .
Now , we have the whole Israel consisting of many nations and it has many saved Christians :
These other saved Christians : christian men and christian women will have the same spiritual bodies as Christ and his 144000 but they will be subject to further obedience to God and His government : Christ-"God" + 144000 "gods"-men ( like prime minister and his ministers ).
They will have perfect not aging bodies , yet they will live eternally as long as they will keep obedience.They will be like workers working in for ministers . So,they will rule also over the nations of the world.
The whole Israel = Christ + 144000 + remaining saved Christians .
They will rule over the pagan nations who will consist of people who lived in false religions and were deemed good by God to have a chance to be saved in the future.
They will have physical less-perfect bodies that will age and will need renewal from time to time to go on with living in the Paradise .
Christ ( second Adam ) + 144000 men ( second Eve ) and their children who are all other saved Christians = the whole Israel .
Adam and Eve were the progenitors of the future Israel.The whole Israel would be like Adam and Eve and their children if Adam and Eve had not sinned.
Adam was the first man of possible many human beings who were created seperately in other parts of the earth and God attributed to all of them the same characteristics of Adam and Eve after they both sinned.This way sin went to all men down.That is another scenario if it it really true that other human beings were existing besides Adam and Eve which is possible.
That is why all saved pagans need to believe in Christ and yet they are outside of the family of Christ and his bride (144000 men) and their children.
In view of that the pagan people as an offspring of those other first human beings -apart from Adam and Eve- would have been living the same lives as those pagans who will be living in the Paradise with physical bodies that would have required renewals from time to time to continue their existence .
The best way is to assume there were many human beings apart from Adam and Eve that were created by God Yahweh at the very beginning but they were created after Adam and Eve were created.
Why ? Because if Adam and Eve were the only first humans and all people originated from them there would not have been the third class of saved people as I had explained. All children of Adam and Eve would have the same perfect bodies as Adam and Eve with the exclusion of the obedience principle ; they would be subject to second death (final death ) if disobedient. Adam and Eve would never sin !
And now Christ and his 144000 took that what was lost by Adam and Eve.They will never sin in the whole eternity, being as "God" and "gods".