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Posts by Vidqun
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16
The Purpose Of The Circuit Assembly, Is To Show How Much More We Can Do, or How Little We Do?
by Bubblegum Apotheosis inwhy is it, the c.a.s are not upbuiling, and the whole bible is replaced with, "how to do more for jehovah!
" talks.
the "two day assemblies" are no.
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Vidqun
I agree with Breakfast, CAs are not upbuilding at all. I usually feel bad and is in a foul mood after an assembly. Often it is because of their negative attitude towards secular education. No, there is definitely something wrong there.
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49
Another day, another apostate. Here's my story.
by I Want to Believe inbeen lurking for a bit, and feel safe enough now to tell my story (condensed).. i'm a third-generation born-in, but my parents were inactive for most of my upbringing.
this means i got the worst of both worlds--no worldly friends (home schooled all but grades 2-3), no witness friends (since we never went to the hall except for memorial), and a generally isolated upbringing in a tiny, tiny town.
needless to say, my emotional, social, and personal growth were stunted.
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Vidqun
Welcome I Want to Believe,
I am in a similar predicament. At this stage, this is how I reason. Perhaps God has removed his spirit from the Organization. They might have had it, but now there's none going around. The reasons: 1) Becoming an NGO of the UN. By this they have sacrificed their neutrality. They might have resigned, but have they repented by following the necessary steps? 2) Putting the reputation of the Organization before the welfare of their children: Pedophiles call JWs "pedophile paradise"; 3) Sinning elders are not removed, if it looks like "they have Jehovah's blessing." This because there is a shortage of elders, etc., etc., etc.
Would a righteous God allow one to get away with such things? Think of what happened to the Israelites? God got rid of them on a permanent basis. Nothing has changed. What is worse, the "anointed" among JWs call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses. They carry God's name. By their actions they dishonor it every day. According to the Law, if you dishonor God's name, you were sentenced to death.
And if you read the Bible carefully, you’ll notice that there is trouble in store for those calling themselves God’s people, especially the anointed ones. Read scriptures like Ez. 38, 39; Dan. 8:13, 14; 11:40-45; 12:7; Zech. 13:8-14:5; Matt. 24:15, 16; Rev. 11:7, 8.
Or to simplify matters, God promises that he will make all things new. Before making all things new, he has to get rid of existing structures, including that of the Witnesses (cf. Rev. 21:5). Also you know 2 Pet. 3:13 well where a promise is made of “a new heavens and new earth” wherein righteousness is to dwell. True righteousness will only prevail in God’s new world. That means there is no righteousness in this world, including the Watchtower organization.
I believe each must work out his or her own salvation for “each of us will render an account for himself to God” (Rom. 14:12; Phil. 2:12).
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12
Family Dinner
by fade_away inso my wife and i decided to throw a little dinner for her parents and mine.
they are all hardcore jws and my wife and i have been out for a little more than a year.
her father has been innactive for years, but as soon as we decided to leave, her father decided to go full throttle jw.
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Vidqun
Your father-in-law sounds like a sheep that cannot be away from the flock. He is dependant on the association. Some people are like that. They need to feel liked, that they belong, a person with a typical herd mentality.
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39
I want to repeat this personal experience
by cptkirk inno need to go into details (if you want details then i'll give more) but just for the sake of brevity, i will state it succinctly.
i just want to also note, this is not even one of crazier things i've seen with these people.
i was at a meeting for field service ok...you know how they will have one guy take the group out, and he will ask questions about presentations and things like that right?
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Vidqun
Cptkirk, I can see why it must bother you big time. These are people that are supposed to be exemplary in their conduct. Well I have news for you. They are just as imperfect as you and I (no better, but sometimes worse). I have a simple answer for you. Some people think too much of themselves, contrary to what the Scriptures teach (Rom. 12:3). But what they forget, if you stumble someone, it's as good you are thrown into the water with a millstone around your neck. I don't say so, Jesus said so (Luk. 17:2). I also keep in mind, if something or someone stumble you, "cut it off" in a figurative sense. Rid your life of people like that. It's called freedom of association. This is one of the things we were taught by the Watchtower (Matt. 5:29).
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32
Is U.S. last world power?
by 2tone inunfortunately i was out in service the other day.
just to get my 2-3 hours in for the month.
this lady who has invested over 60 years of all her life into the org made a comment.
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Vidqun
As another thread brought out, the US has a $16 trillion debt to work through. China has spare cash worth over $3 trillion (in Foreign Currency Reserves). At the moment they are being feted by the Africans in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, where the African Union is meeting. The Chinese are there with their Bible, the Cheque Book. In the world today, money is king because money talks.
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So you think the Roman Catholic Church is different from the WTS re hiding abuse
by blondie indeposition of a snap leader to be made publicposted by mark serrano on january 18, 2012 flaglate yesterday, a judge unsealed the six hour deposition of snap executive director david clohessy by five lawyers representing kansas city bishop robert finn and five kansas city accused pedophile priests (fr.
michael tierney, msgr.
thomas obrien, fr.
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Vidqun
Agreed. I think he is lying (Theocratic warfare). I have never heard of a Witness parent taking another to court for child molestation. The Bible is very clear on this, from beginning to end. God cares for widows and fatherless children. If you harm them, you take on God himself.
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So you think the Roman Catholic Church is different from the WTS re hiding abuse
by blondie indeposition of a snap leader to be made publicposted by mark serrano on january 18, 2012 flaglate yesterday, a judge unsealed the six hour deposition of snap executive director david clohessy by five lawyers representing kansas city bishop robert finn and five kansas city accused pedophile priests (fr.
michael tierney, msgr.
thomas obrien, fr.
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Vidqun
Blondie, I confronted a young JW elder today about child abuse in the JW organization. He says they have been instructed in how to deal with child abuse cases. According to him, the victims (and parents) are free to go to the police and lay a charge. They are also "encouraged" to seek professional help, viewing psychologists and psychiatrists as doctors. This must be very recent instructions. What happened in Victoria, Australia contradicts his testimony. Or is it a case of those elders following their own rules. Anybody here have more info, elders or ex-elders?
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32
Is U.S. last world power?
by 2tone inunfortunately i was out in service the other day.
just to get my 2-3 hours in for the month.
this lady who has invested over 60 years of all her life into the org made a comment.
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Vidqun
True, the Essene break-away group at Qumran also interpreted the prophets as though they were living in the "end time." In a manner of speaking their end did come when they were destroyed by Roman legions. For the Jewish zealots the last stand was Masada. Up to this day, the Jews take their army recruits up there and tell them: "Remember Masada." But here we are, going into 2012, all wondering what the future holds.
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32
Is U.S. last world power?
by 2tone inunfortunately i was out in service the other day.
just to get my 2-3 hours in for the month.
this lady who has invested over 60 years of all her life into the org made a comment.
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Vidqun
Fizzy, here's some research on "the final part of the days" and "the end time" from external sources. If you are interested in the subject, you will find it thought-provoking. If not, ignore the post.
a) Latter days: ’acharith hayyamim = latter (part of the) days
’acharith = end, issue: spatial meaning, hind part of cow, remote sea (cf. Ps. 139:9); temporal meaning, end (of the year), in future days, outcome, result, in the end, finally. Antonym: qêdêm (= formerly).
The formulaic expression be’acharith hayyamim is generally used in the sense “time to come” (e.g., Gen. 49:1), then the “future”, and “the end of time” as we know it (e.g., Isa. 2:2; Mic. 4:1; Hos. 3:5; Ezek. 38:16; Dan. 2:28; 10:14). See TDOT, vol. VI, p. 19.
Moses, in his farewell song, summons all to remember the days of old, and to consider the years of past generations. The same song says concerning foolish apostates: “If they were wise, they would understand this, they would discern their afterward [le’acharitham]” (cf. Deut. 32:29). Similarly, the psalmist, in Ps. 73:17, says that he would go into the sanctuary of God in order to discern their future, i.e., the future of the ungodly. Those that disregard Him, He will tear down (cf. Ps. 28:5).
According to the editors of TWOT, “E. H. Wolff likens the Hebrew conception of time to the situation of a man rowing a boat. He sees the past as before him (qêdêm); the future is behind his back (’acharith).” The interpretation depends on the context. It is possible to use the latter for the eschaton as well as the general future because obviously all eschatology is future, but not all future is eschatology. John J. Collins, i n the Daniel commentary of the Hermeneia-series, p. 161, comments:
28 . what will be at the end of the era: The biblical phrase ’acharith hayyamim typically refers to some decisive change at a future time. It has been argued that in some of the early uses (Num 24:14; Gen 49:1; Deut 4:30; 31:29) the reference is to a limited future time. In Numbers 24 and Genesis 49, however, the phrase is not part of the ancient poetry. These passages were read as classical eschatological texts in the post-exilic period, and such an understanding was probably implied already by the introduction of the phrase ’acharith hayyamim. In Deuteronomy the reference is to future turning points in Israel’s history, in relation to the covenant. In other passages the phrase has a more specifically eschatological meaning (Isa 2:2/Mic 4:1; Hos 3:5; Ezek 38:16). In Isaiah/Micah and Hosea the reference is to a definitive transformation in Israel in the distant future. In Ezekiel the reference is to the advent of Gog, as part of the drama that will precede the definitive transformation. Even in these cases, however, the conventional translation “end of days” is questionable, since an end of the world or history is not envisaged. In the Dead Sea Scrolls the phrase is used with reference to the messianic age (1Qsa 1:1; 4QpIsa 7.3.22; CD 6:11; 4Qflor 1:2, 12). In Daniel, too, the reference is to a definitive change in the future but not to an end of history.
In the majority of cases the phrase “(in) the latter part of the days” could be defined as “the end of human history as we know it” (cf. Jer. 30:24; Is. 2:2; Mic. 4:1; Ez. 38:8, 16). More specifically, in the book of Daniel: “(God in heaven) has made known to King Nebuchadnezzar what will be in the ’acharith of the days (2:28). The point of the vision does not lie in the course of future events, but in the destruction of the colossus and in the coming of an indestructible kingdom (v. 44). Thus the outcome of the future is what is intended, and not the future in general. Similarly, 10:14 says: “I (the angel that had appeared) came to make you understand what is to befall your people in (at) the ’acharith of the days. For the vision is for days yet to come.” Since the following material deals with the stages of history from Cyrus to Antiochus IV, the meaning “future” cannot be excluded here; but the real purpose of the vision is to show how history will culminate, thus its outcome. Therefore, this passage has in mind the end, and not merely the future.” (TDOT, vol. I, pp. 211, 212)
Daniel asked, “What will be the final part of these things?” (cf. Dan. 12:8) The reference to “after(wards)” does not necessarily point to a chronological end, but “to show how history will culminate, thus its outcome” (TDOT, vol. I, p. 212). Such a biblical concept is not far-fetched at all. A similar view is held by political economist and author, Francis Fukuyama, in his 1992 book The End of History and the Last Man . He is quoted as saying: “What we may be witnessing is not just the end of the Cold War, or the passing of a particular period of post-war history, but the end of history as such: that is, the end point of mankind’s ideological evolution and the universalization of Western liberal democracy as the final form of human government.”
b) End time: `eith qeits = end time
`eith : “time”. (Sept. 162 times kairos, 26 times houra, twice khronos). Time of judgement, time of the end (Is. 13:22 of Babel; Ez. 22:3 of Jerusalem), time of final punishment (Ez. 21:30, 34; 35:5).
qeits : “end”. The noun qes derives from the common Semitic root qtsts “cut off”, “cut to pieces”, end, temporal (period of time), 1) end (of lifetime), 2) period of time, 3) historical period, 4) eschatology, or spatial, end (edges) of earth, heavens, cf. Jer. 49:36. Antonym: ro’sh (= beginning).
Historical period : Often qeits denotes a specific span of time in the past or future. The expression `eith `äwon qeits (Ez. 21:30, 34 [25, 29]; 35:5) refers to the period of the monarchy, which ended with the destruction of Jerusalem on account of Israel’s sins. Similarly, in Dan. 9:26 the phrase weqitstsou bashshêthêph we`adh qeits milhhâmâh is to be understood as referring to a historical period of devastating wars that mark the culmination of divine judgement.
The connotation “historical period” or “age” is sometimes, as above, made explicit by association with other temporal terms: qeits par. `eith (Jer. 50:26, 27; Ez. 7:6, 7), `eith qeits (Dan. 8:17; 11:35, 40; 12:4, 9); inverted qeits hâ`ittîm (Dan. 11:13; expanded: Ez. 35:5) or made manifest by added terms kî-`odh lammou`eidh (Dan. 11:35)… The phrase weyâpheiahh laqqeits in Hab. 2:3, explained by `oudh hâzoun lammou’eidh, refers to an event expected to occur in the near future kî-bo’ yâbhou’ lo’ ye’ahheir, not in an apocalyptic time frame. This historical interpretation is reflected in 1QpHab. 7:1ff. (cf. TDOT, vol. XIII, pp. 82, 83).
Time of [the] end (= [the] end time): This phrase occurs six times in the Bible and is exclusive to the book of Daniel. “The expression qes in the book of Daniel (8:17, 19; 11:35, 40; 12:4, 9; cf. Hab. 2:3) clearly aims to convey a juxtaposition of the present and the eschatological future; for, although “the time of the final phase” refers primarily to the period of persecution by Antiochus IV Epiphanes, this period is also the time of tribulation that marks the opening phase of the eschaton” (TDOT, vol. XI, p. 450). Daniel had to seal the book till the “end time”. From there he would “go toward the end”, i.e., rest, and then stand up to collect his reward (cf. Dan. 12:4, 9, 13).
Eschatology : Only in a few late biblical texts does qeits occur in an eschatological context. The expression laqqeits and leqeits hayyamîn in Dnl. 12:13 clearly refer to the “end of time”. This does not mean that time will stop, but that history as we know it, will come to an end. In this context the phrase qeits happelâ’outh in verse 6 can also be interpreted eschatologically; but the meaning “appointed age” is preferable to an eschatological interpretation. The expression qeits happelâ’outh anticipates a “wonderful age,” the beginning of which is determined by preceding period of “two and a half times” (v. 7). In Ezk. 7:2-6, similarly, (haq)qeits denotes an age of destined punishment of the people (cf. vv. 7-8, qâroubh miqqâroubh); and Amos 8:2 should not be equated with the eschatological “day of Yahweh” of Amos 5:18ff. (TDOT, vol. XIII, p. 83)
Coming back to the book of Daniel, according to the angel, the big horn or fierce king, later introduced as King of the South, will stand up during the “[the] end time” (cf. Dan. 7:9, 10, 13, 14, 20, 26, 27; 8:17, 19). This King will then become involved in a final military confrontation with the King of the North, a most trying time for God’s people (cf. Dan. 11:35, 40). During this time Michael will stand up (as king), his people will escape, and [true] knowledge will become abundant as the seal on the book of Daniel is broken (Dan. 7:13, 14; 8:26; 9:24; 12:1, 4, 9). The big horn and fierce king, alias King of the South, will then be destroyed, broken without a [human] hand (cf. Dan. 7:26; 8:25b). A similar fate awaits the King of the North. He will come “all the way to his end, and there will be no helper for him” (Dan. 11:45; cf. 2:44, 45).