Posts by Vidqun

35

The End of Biblical Studies?

by slimboyfat in

a while ago i read a book called the end of biblical studies by evangelical turned sceptical academic hector avalos.

i thought it was really interesting perhaps because it mirrors some of the stages i went through as regards how i viewed the bible as i was leaving the witnesses.

at first i still believed the bible was inspired by god but learned to use different methods to interpret it than witness eisegesis.

Over-simplification, I know, just like the title End of Biblical Studies is a HUGE over-simplification. So my post is in the spirit, and well within the boundaries, of the current thread. The quotes might be somewhat dated, but they do explain where I come from and what I believe. When Theological Seminaries close their doors, and Theology is not offered as a course in foremost universities and colleges, let me know, then we can re-examine the subject. Until such a time, I would call it wishful thinking. As I mentioned above, thousands of scholars and students will not agree with such an all encompassing statement. Perhaps Avalos is trying his hand at prophecy? Then time will tell whether such a statement is to stand or fall.

Textual basis: Here the Bible and its translations do exceptionally well, as the quotes suggest. In recent times the Bible has been examined as any other book. So far it has stood its ground rather well. Most objective scholars will attest to its value. Sorry to disappoint, but we do not have original works of any historical work. Does that mean we must shoot them all down because we do not have original autographs? Not a good argument at all.

Historical basis: The Bible contributes to the understanding of the origins of writing, language, translation, history and the development of religion. Archaeology of the Holy Land has confirmed a substantial portion of the written record. By visiting Palestine and surroundings, one can acquaint oneself with many landmarks mentioned in the Bible. And by just strolling through the British Museum, you will find many an artifact that could be connected to biblical figures and their neighbours (in the shop there's a whole book about it).

The figure of Jesus: Here one should read through the NT and decide for yourself what you want to believe. Those who ignore what Jesus taught will be poorer for it.

Impressive literature: Of all ancient writings, the Bible is unique. If there is anything to compare with it, I would love to hear of it.

Avalos certainly has a knife to grind: "Avalos argues that much of the poetry is repetitive, poorly constructed, grammatically problematic and ethically and aesthetically unsuccessful." I have not encountered a single Bible scholar with such a view. Granted, those with such a view, would not be studying the Bible anymore.

35

The End of Biblical Studies?

by slimboyfat in

a while ago i read a book called the end of biblical studies by evangelical turned sceptical academic hector avalos.

i thought it was really interesting perhaps because it mirrors some of the stages i went through as regards how i viewed the bible as i was leaving the witnesses.

at first i still believed the bible was inspired by god but learned to use different methods to interpret it than witness eisegesis.

Vidqun

1) The Bible is the Big Truth. According to Bible Fundamentalists.

2) The Bible is Half Truth, Half Lie. According to most modern Bible Scholars.

3) The Bible is the Big Lie. According to atheists.

These are your choices. I believe in 1), as well as in cause and effect (where there is smoke there is fire). Here is a few good quotes of people in the know, having made a thorough study of the Bible and its manuscripts. And an archaeologist worth his salt, working in Palestine, will also study what the Bible has to say about a certain town, geographical location, etc.

End of Biblical Studies? I don't think so. Thousands and thousands are studying the Bible worldwide. I wonder why?

Rudolf Kittel, the first editor of Biblia Hebraica (BH), containing the Masoretic Text of the HAS, said: “Even so the Biblia Hebraica will remain subject to the saying, ‘One day instructs another’. May it find everywhere fair critics, but especially readers worthy of the greatness of the subject!” [i]

Adolf von Harnack, author of the authoritative two-volume work, Die Mission und Ausbreitung des Christentums in den ersten drei Jahrhunderten (‘The mission and expansion of Christianity during the first three centuries’) commented on the influence of the LXX on Western thought: “The most common attitude among Greeks who came into contact with the Old Testament was that this book and the cosmos are mutually related and must be understood together. Whatever they might think about the book, it appeared to be certain that it was a creation parallel to the world itself, equally great, and comprehensive, and that both are the work of the same Creator. What other book received a comparable verdict among thinking men?” [ii]

R.H. Pfeiffer, in his Introduction to the Old Testament, insists, “No book or collection of books have over the years been more carefully read, more widely circulated or more zealously studied than the books of the Old Testament”.

F.J.A. Hort, a co-producer of the Westcott and Hort text, writes: “By far the most of the words of the New Testament is lifted above all sifting processes of textual criticism, because they have no variants and only needs to be copied... If relatively unimportant questions... are ignored, the words that we vouch to be doubtful only encompasses about a thousandth of the whole of the New Testament.”[iii]

Sir Frederick Kenyon, Bible scholar and erstwhile director of the British Museum, said: “The interval then between the dates of original composition and the earliest extant evidence becomes so small as to be in fact negligible, and the last foundation for any doubt that the Scriptures have come down to us substantially as they were written has now been removed. Both the authenticity and the general integrity of the books of the New Testament may be regarded as finally established. (But general faithfulness and (pinpoint accuracy) is a different matter).” [iv]

In his book Our Bible and the Ancient Manuscripts, Kenyon said: “We must be satisfied with the knowledge that the general faithfulness of the New Testament text has been remarkably confirmed by recent finds. These shortened the time between original MSS and the oldest available MSS to such an extent that the different readings, even though interesting, do not change the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith.” [v]

Professor Aland writes: “It can be determined, on the basis of 40 years of experience and with the results which have come to light in

examining . . . manuscripts at 1,200 test places: The text of the New Testament has been excellently transmitted, better than any

other writing from ancient times; the possibility that manuscripts might yet be found that would change its text decisively is zero.” [vi]

[i] Biblia Hebraica edidit Rudolf Kittel, Württembergische Bibelanstalt Stuttgart, 1973 edition, Introduction p. xxviii.

[ii] E. Würthwein, The Text of the Old Testament An Introduction to the Biblia Hebraica , p. 49.

[iii] B.F Westcott and F.J.A. Hort, The New Testament in the Original Greek (1881), part I, p. 561. Cf. Introduction to the New Testament in the Original Greek (1988 edition), p. 2.

[iv] F. Kenyon, The Bible and Archaeology (1940), pp. 288, 289.

[v] F. Kenyon, Our Bible and the Ancient Manuscripts (1962), p. 249.

[vi] K. Aland, Das Neue Testament - zuverlässig überliefert (1986), pp. 28.27, 28.

67

This was my 'Sign'

by MsGrowingGirl20 in

jw
friends

in my previous post i mentioned that i'm staying in the org because i think i got a sign from god...some of you asked a lot of questions about my sign and even shared the society's view on asking for signs which i didn't know.. i didn't disclose exactly what the sign was.. some of you asked me what it was and even stated that i know that you all would pick apart and prove that my sign was just a frivolous excuse to hold on to the org.. maybe you were right.. so i've decided to tell you all exactly what it was---no embellishments or exaggerations.

i would love to hear your opinions since i'm still in a terrible mess.sometimes i'm 100% this is not the truth then other times i'm 60%....i feel if god was giving me a sign i'd be 100% this is the truth you know?.

so i woke up that morning and organized to go meeting.

Vidqun

MsGG20, here's a thought. Remember, the congregation is your support group. If you are suddenly cut off from your support group, it will be as though you are in a life raft on the ocean. You will be lifted by evey swell, and be carried along by each wave. In the past many have urged that you should not be in a hurry. What's the rush? To make things more complicated, you might be emotionally involved with someone in the congregation. To be in love is one of the greatest feelings ever, but beware. You can become unevenly yoked, which you might regret forever.

As you were encouraged in previous threads, if you have the opportunity, do carry on with your (secular) studies. It is your God-given obligation. 1 Tim. 5:8 says: "Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his [or her] own, he has disowned the fath and is worse than a person without faith." This is your first obligation. While you are studying you will be broadening your horizons and making new friends. During holidays you can even pioneer, if you feel like it - my five cents worth.

54

Whoa - stop the world - I just got the joke!

by Qcmbr in

finally - i get it.

oh my gosh.. .

why did the chicken cross the road?.

Vidqun

Chicken

54

Whoa - stop the world - I just got the joke!

by Qcmbr in

finally - i get it.

oh my gosh.. .

why did the chicken cross the road?.

Vidqun

9

JW-media.org appears to be dow. Can anyone else get in???

by not bitter in

i was in there earlier today to read up on their child abuse policy but it doesn't seem to be working now.

.

i need to print their policy off as i'm thinking of speaking to my parents about it.

Vidqun

Perhaps hackers have taken it down?

110

It took me a long time to write this...i'm staying.

by MsGrowingGirl20 in

it took me a long time to write this....i'm being brutally honest...i am still a reg pioneer...three sundays ago,i was praying and asking god for a sign or something because i was so confused...i told him exactly what i needed to see for me to believe.i was feeling terrible--crying and feeling sick because i was so confused.ten minutes after, i walked into the kingdom hall and to my surprise--my prayer was answered!

i soooo wasn't expecting it, even though i prayed.

so this is where almighty god wants me to be,ii've reasoned.

Vidqun

Well, as long as she watches her back. The Society has a secret list of 23 000 pedophiles (and counting) on their books according to Silent Lambs. With such a statistic at the back of your mind: How on earth would you be able to participate in the preaching work and sleep well at night?

78

Facebook Comments From JWs About Kendrick Case

by cofty in

i can't believe do catholic priest get hit with payouts like this.

definitely feel terrible what happened to her but to hold the society responsible for a person not living by bible standards is crazy.

what a pack of lies about secrecy and cover ups.

Vidqun

It is obvious that none of the respondents have ever been molested? Perhaps they have been molested and are willing to take one for the team? I am ashamed to say that I was once associated with such fanatics that have no clue of right or wrong. And who is it that brought dishonor on Jehovah's name, the victim?

110

It took me a long time to write this...i'm staying.

by MsGrowingGirl20 in

it took me a long time to write this....i'm being brutally honest...i am still a reg pioneer...three sundays ago,i was praying and asking god for a sign or something because i was so confused...i told him exactly what i needed to see for me to believe.i was feeling terrible--crying and feeling sick because i was so confused.ten minutes after, i walked into the kingdom hall and to my surprise--my prayer was answered!

i soooo wasn't expecting it, even though i prayed.

so this is where almighty god wants me to be,ii've reasoned.

Vidqun

Each must work out his or her own salvation (Phil. 2:12). And in the end each must render an account to God (Rom. 14:12). As long as you don't stop thinking. Carry on developing your brain. Everything of the best.

11

JWs and Neutrality

by Vidqun in

jws have always had a problem with neutrality:.

1) during ww i they encouraged via the magazines to buy war bonds, i.e., liberty bonds, as it was then known, thus actively supporting the war effort (search, under "war bonds").. 2) during ww ii, the australian branch also invested heavily in war bonds in order for the ban to be lifted.

after the war, they had to repent, before jehovah could bless their efforts again.. 3) more recently the wts has invested in companies with defense contracts.. 4) membership of the un as ngo (1992-2001).

Vidqun

Thanks Blondie for your input. As you might have noticed, it is something close to my heart because of being directly involved with the neutrality issue in the past.

Criticalwitness, I agree. I have read somewhere that Jehovah allowed Rutherford and associates to be imprisoned because of the war bonds saga and because they did not encourage strict neutrality during the war. As you say, next time round things might be different. I do believe, what goes around comes around. The wheel is indeed turning.

Disillusioned, interesting theory, encouraging neutrality to keep the R&F focused on cult activities.

Carla, I agree. Few people understand the real meaning of the word, especially JWs. I know for a fact the Swiss nation, which is referred to as being neutral, is everything but neutral. Each of their citizens is armed and undergoes compulsory military training.

QueenWitch, yes being truly neutral does reflect ignorance or stupidity. Nobody can be truly neutral in a multi-cultural society. Even the Witnesses are not shy to don traditional dress, and they are proud of their heritage, no doubt.

Apostatethunder, good point. Being neutral in the midst of injustice (e.g. what's happening in Syria) is equivalent to condoning it. That puts "neutrality" in a new light for me.

InquiryMan, that rings a bell. I think it was the yearbook dealing with JWs in Australia and the islands.

Conclusion: I think all will agree, nobody can be truly neutral and retain a good conscience, especially where there is injustice. However, if you propagate it as an organization, you should put your money where your mouth is, and not keep double standards.