If they do lose the appeal, it'll open the floodgates, and they'll want to avoid that, come hell or high water.
Posts by Vidqun
-
97I think the Society might drop its appeal over the Conti case
by cedars ini've been giving some thought to the recent development in which the judge has ruled that the society is barred from completing any property transactions until the appeal is over, which could take up to two years or even more.. i've submitted an article to randy at freeminds in which i basically argue that it is no longer in the society's interests to appeal this case.
if i correctly understand the restrictions placed on the society by the judge, then the governing body has far more to lose by appealing than they could conceivably gain.. think about it.... by appealing, they buy themselves time in which to formulate a long-term strategy for dealing with the fallout of this case, but will be barred from liquidating $1 billion in property assets at a time of global economic uncertainty when their donations are dwindling.
there is also no guarantee that their appeal will be upheld.by dropping their appeal, they take a hit and pay $23.8 million but retain the freedom to see through their real estate projects; retain their financial flexibility to respond to dwindling donations, and get to pretend to their followers (as with the un scandal) that it never happened.of course, i am only saying that dropping the appeal would be the only intelligent option for the society, assuming they are aware of how legally precarious their child abuse policies are.
-
-
-
50
When you were active, did you feel you would survive Armageddon?
by Band on the Run ini am curious about this issue.
personally, i never felt i would be good enough for a split second.
one would think that knowing you can not be good enough to survive would it make it easier to leave the witnesses and live for the present.
-
-
Vidqun
No, never. Like the pie in the sky, it was just was too high (Pink Floyed if I'm not mistaken).
-
35
The End of Biblical Studies?
by slimboyfat ina while ago i read a book called the end of biblical studies by evangelical turned sceptical academic hector avalos.
i thought it was really interesting perhaps because it mirrors some of the stages i went through as regards how i viewed the bible as i was leaving the witnesses.
at first i still believed the bible was inspired by god but learned to use different methods to interpret it than witness eisegesis.
-
-
Vidqun
Keppler, the title then should have been Problems with Biblical Studies if he has a gripe about the way scholars study the Bible. But of course such a bland title creates no hype, so rather settle for one that will draw attention and sell his book. And your post proves my point. While such problems and discrepencies exist, there will always be students and scholars that will want to clear them up. While such interest in Biblical studies exist, The End of Biblical Studies is still very far away in the future. Archaeologists will continue digging, and so will Bible scholars and students. Even when scientific advances eclipse Bible studies, there will always be people interested in the past.
-
35
The End of Biblical Studies?
by slimboyfat ina while ago i read a book called the end of biblical studies by evangelical turned sceptical academic hector avalos.
i thought it was really interesting perhaps because it mirrors some of the stages i went through as regards how i viewed the bible as i was leaving the witnesses.
at first i still believed the bible was inspired by god but learned to use different methods to interpret it than witness eisegesis.
-
-
Vidqun
Over-simplification, I know, just like the title End of Biblical Studies is a HUGE over-simplification. So my post is in the spirit, and well within the boundaries, of the current thread. The quotes might be somewhat dated, but they do explain where I come from and what I believe. When Theological Seminaries close their doors, and Theology is not offered as a course in foremost universities and colleges, let me know, then we can re-examine the subject. Until such a time, I would call it wishful thinking. As I mentioned above, thousands of scholars and students will not agree with such an all encompassing statement. Perhaps Avalos is trying his hand at prophecy? Then time will tell whether such a statement is to stand or fall.
Textual basis: Here the Bible and its translations do exceptionally well, as the quotes suggest. In recent times the Bible has been examined as any other book. So far it has stood its ground rather well. Most objective scholars will attest to its value. Sorry to disappoint, but we do not have original works of any historical work. Does that mean we must shoot them all down because we do not have original autographs? Not a good argument at all.
Historical basis: The Bible contributes to the understanding of the origins of writing, language, translation, history and the development of religion. Archaeology of the Holy Land has confirmed a substantial portion of the written record. By visiting Palestine and surroundings, one can acquaint oneself with many landmarks mentioned in the Bible. And by just strolling through the British Museum, you will find many an artifact that could be connected to biblical figures and their neighbours (in the shop there's a whole book about it).
The figure of Jesus: Here one should read through the NT and decide for yourself what you want to believe. Those who ignore what Jesus taught will be poorer for it.
Impressive literature: Of all ancient writings, the Bible is unique. If there is anything to compare with it, I would love to hear of it.
Avalos certainly has a knife to grind: "Avalos argues that much of the poetry is repetitive, poorly constructed, grammatically problematic and ethically and aesthetically unsuccessful." I have not encountered a single Bible scholar with such a view. Granted, those with such a view, would not be studying the Bible anymore.
-
35
The End of Biblical Studies?
by slimboyfat ina while ago i read a book called the end of biblical studies by evangelical turned sceptical academic hector avalos.
i thought it was really interesting perhaps because it mirrors some of the stages i went through as regards how i viewed the bible as i was leaving the witnesses.
at first i still believed the bible was inspired by god but learned to use different methods to interpret it than witness eisegesis.
-
-
Vidqun
1) The Bible is the Big Truth. According to Bible Fundamentalists.
2) The Bible is Half Truth, Half Lie. According to most modern Bible Scholars.
3) The Bible is the Big Lie. According to atheists.
These are your choices. I believe in 1), as well as in cause and effect (where there is smoke there is fire). Here is a few good quotes of people in the know, having made a thorough study of the Bible and its manuscripts. And an archaeologist worth his salt, working in Palestine, will also study what the Bible has to say about a certain town, geographical location, etc.
End of Biblical Studies? I don't think so. Thousands and thousands are studying the Bible worldwide. I wonder why?
Rudolf Kittel, the first editor of Biblia Hebraica (BH), containing the Masoretic Text of the HAS, said: “Even so the Biblia Hebraica will remain subject to the saying, ‘One day instructs another’. May it find everywhere fair critics, but especially readers worthy of the greatness of the subject!” [i]
Adolf von Harnack, author of the authoritative two-volume work, Die Mission und Ausbreitung des Christentums in den ersten drei Jahrhunderten (‘The mission and expansion of Christianity during the first three centuries’) commented on the influence of the LXX on Western thought: “The most common attitude among Greeks who came into contact with the Old Testament was that this book and the cosmos are mutually related and must be understood together. Whatever they might think about the book, it appeared to be certain that it was a creation parallel to the world itself, equally great, and comprehensive, and that both are the work of the same Creator. What other book received a comparable verdict among thinking men?” [ii]
R.H. Pfeiffer, in his Introduction to the Old Testament, insists, “No book or collection of books have over the years been more carefully read, more widely circulated or more zealously studied than the books of the Old Testament”.
F.J.A. Hort, a co-producer of the Westcott and Hort text, writes: “By far the most of the words of the New Testament is lifted above all sifting processes of textual criticism, because they have no variants and only needs to be copied... If relatively unimportant questions... are ignored, the words that we vouch to be doubtful only encompasses about a thousandth of the whole of the New Testament.”[iii]
Sir Frederick Kenyon, Bible scholar and erstwhile director of the British Museum, said: “The interval then between the dates of original composition and the earliest extant evidence becomes so small as to be in fact negligible, and the last foundation for any doubt that the Scriptures have come down to us substantially as they were written has now been removed. Both the authenticity and the general integrity of the books of the New Testament may be regarded as finally established. (But general faithfulness and (pinpoint accuracy) is a different matter).” [iv]
In his book Our Bible and the Ancient Manuscripts, Kenyon said: “We must be satisfied with the knowledge that the general faithfulness of the New Testament text has been remarkably confirmed by recent finds. These shortened the time between original MSS and the oldest available MSS to such an extent that the different readings, even though interesting, do not change the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith.” [v]
Professor Aland writes: “It can be determined, on the basis of 40 years of experience and with the results which have come to light in
examining . . . manuscripts at 1,200 test places: The text of the New Testament has been excellently transmitted, better than any
other writing from ancient times; the possibility that manuscripts might yet be found that would change its text decisively is zero.” [vi]
[i] Biblia Hebraica edidit Rudolf Kittel, Württembergische Bibelanstalt Stuttgart, 1973 edition, Introduction p. xxviii.
[ii] E. Würthwein, The Text of the Old Testament An Introduction to the Biblia Hebraica , p. 49.
[iii] B.F Westcott and F.J.A. Hort, The New Testament in the Original Greek (1881), part I, p. 561. Cf. Introduction to the New Testament in the Original Greek (1988 edition), p. 2.
[iv] F. Kenyon, The Bible and Archaeology (1940), pp. 288, 289.
[v] F. Kenyon, Our Bible and the Ancient Manuscripts (1962), p. 249.
[vi] K. Aland, Das Neue Testament - zuverlässig überliefert (1986), pp. 28.27, 28.
-
67
This was my 'Sign'
by MsGrowingGirl20 inin my previous post i mentioned that i'm staying in the org because i think i got a sign from god...some of you asked a lot of questions about my sign and even shared the society's view on asking for signs which i didn't know.. i didn't disclose exactly what the sign was.. some of you asked me what it was and even stated that i know that you all would pick apart and prove that my sign was just a frivolous excuse to hold on to the org.. maybe you were right.. so i've decided to tell you all exactly what it was---no embellishments or exaggerations.
i would love to hear your opinions since i'm still in a terrible mess.sometimes i'm 100% this is not the truth then other times i'm 60%....i feel if god was giving me a sign i'd be 100% this is the truth you know?.
so i woke up that morning and organized to go meeting.
-
-
Vidqun
MsGG20, here's a thought. Remember, the congregation is your support group. If you are suddenly cut off from your support group, it will be as though you are in a life raft on the ocean. You will be lifted by evey swell, and be carried along by each wave. In the past many have urged that you should not be in a hurry. What's the rush? To make things more complicated, you might be emotionally involved with someone in the congregation. To be in love is one of the greatest feelings ever, but beware. You can become unevenly yoked, which you might regret forever.
As you were encouraged in previous threads, if you have the opportunity, do carry on with your (secular) studies. It is your God-given obligation. 1 Tim. 5:8 says: "Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his [or her] own, he has disowned the fath and is worse than a person without faith." This is your first obligation. While you are studying you will be broadening your horizons and making new friends. During holidays you can even pioneer, if you feel like it - my five cents worth.
-
54
Whoa - stop the world - I just got the joke!
by Qcmbr infinally - i get it.
oh my gosh.. .
why did the chicken cross the road?.
-
-
-
54
Whoa - stop the world - I just got the joke!
by Qcmbr infinally - i get it.
oh my gosh.. .
why did the chicken cross the road?.
-
-
-
9
JW-media.org appears to be dow. Can anyone else get in???
by not bitter ini was in there earlier today to read up on their child abuse policy but it doesn't seem to be working now.
.
i need to print their policy off as i'm thinking of speaking to my parents about it.
-
-
Vidqun
Perhaps hackers have taken it down?
-
110
It took me a long time to write this...i'm staying.
by MsGrowingGirl20 init took me a long time to write this....i'm being brutally honest...i am still a reg pioneer...three sundays ago,i was praying and asking god for a sign or something because i was so confused...i told him exactly what i needed to see for me to believe.i was feeling terrible--crying and feeling sick because i was so confused.ten minutes after, i walked into the kingdom hall and to my surprise--my prayer was answered!
i soooo wasn't expecting it, even though i prayed.
so this is where almighty god wants me to be,ii've reasoned.
-
-
Vidqun
Well, as long as she watches her back. The Society has a secret list of 23 000 pedophiles (and counting) on their books according to Silent Lambs. With such a statistic at the back of your mind: How on earth would you be able to participate in the preaching work and sleep well at night?
