outnfree

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Posts by outnfree

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  4

  Where did they go?

  by Outaservice in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  how do things turn out for godly men?

  i got to thinking about the district and circuit overseers that came into my life over the years and now wonder what the outcome of their lives turned out to be.

  do any of you have information on the following..... the spelling may be a little off on some names.. 1. anthony (tony)catanzaro.

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  outnfree

  Dear Outa,

  Was Tony Catanzaro's wife's name Florine?
  If yes, I have a friend in NJ who may know more.

  outnfree
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  6

  hi everybody!!!

  by unanswered in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been away from the board for a couple of weeks and i've missed you guys.

  my grandmother is on her deathbed, then my pregnant little sis came to visit at the same time that my uncle came up from baja for a few days, throw in the busiest time of year for me at work and a 5 day camping trip squeezed in(barely), and i have been kind of preoccupied lately.

  i had to sign on and check the latest threads, i couldn't wait any longer.

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  outnfree

  Hi, nate!

  Nice to have you back with us. Sorry to hear about your grandmother, that's tough.

  One interesting thread you might not want to miss is one posted recently by Marvin Shilmer -- Does the Society Want Publishers....(I forget the rest. It has a transcript of a recent letter to the Body of Elders. Also silentlambs' latest asking any who have pertinent info for the Dateline show to use his e-mail address as a clearing house. The link is in his post.

  And logical is aggravating everyone.

  take care,
  outnfree
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  82

  Has anyone felt like leaving God altogether?

  by lookingnow22 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i know that the answer is yes, but it would help me to hear your sentiments on this.

  .

  after you decided that the wbts, and thus jw's were not god's chosen earthly organization did you feel like you wanted to leave and forget god altogether?.

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  outnfree

  Wow, Ken!

  That's just about where I am now. Reading the Bible anew without the scales put over my eyes and mind by years of Watchtower indoctrination, AND with the insight of others' comments about the bloodthirstiness of Yahweh (even down to sacrificing his own only Son!), AND yet with the realization of all the marvelously designed things in the world around me, I'm just at the point of believing that the Judeo-Christian God is not the correct concept. He is not a Father-figure.

  Rather, I believe that there was a Creator, but that he is simply uninterested in humankinds' affairs. Perhaps as an Artist creates a wonderful work on a canvas, pronounces Himself satisfied, and then moves on to the next endeavor which is so much more satisfying to contemplate than that which has already been finished....

  So we have been left to ourselves. And as you say, "love is the most compelling force in the human realm." The reason people are drawn to Jesus is because of his message of love. (Jehovah's Witnesses always told us that Jehovah was loving because Jesus perfectly reflected his Father, but .... NOT! As someone mentioned above, Jehovah has serious personality flaws!) One could do worse than try to imitate the guiding principles that shine out from Christ's message. But there are other sources of fine principles that work as well. Expressing love can sometimes get you hurt, but will never be wrong.

  It is extremely distressing to me these days to hear Christians pronounce a myopic, fundamental viewpoint based on a culturally-received orthodox understanding of the Bible, when I now clearly see that the Bible is not the inerrant Word of God.

  Thanks for opening this thread, looking. It's been a very good thing for me to read all the replies.

  outnfree
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  35

  Society on Documenting Personal Views

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  question: does the watchtower society want individual witnesses expressing personal viewpoints about vital religious issues to persons whose intent is to record and document the findings?

  the following letter written under the new letterhead from the societys service department documents the answer to this question.

  christian congregation of jehovahs witnesses.

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  outnfree

  Now, see? I thought the "may" was meant more along the lines that the elder, when approached, might treat the researcher UNkindly and not even deign to listen to him/her (because some worldly person unworthy of respect was asking questions about JEHOVAH'S Organization!).

  Therefore, the QUALIFIED elder needed to be reminded that he should treat the researcher "kindly" and that he should listen to him/her so as to appear to not have at the ready the pre-programmed, Society-scripted reply to all such inquiries that the elder actually has been given. This "may" lull the researcher into not realizing that s/he has been given a non-answer (or been stonewalled).

  Of course, as noted above, the tactic will likely fail! Isn't it interesting to sit back and watch as the Society falls all over itself with missteps?

  outnfree
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  28

  I got my nerve up, gonna try this again!

  by LostMyReligion in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i first posted to this board as "truman" about 2 months ago.

  it was a time of deep depression, confusion, fear, and paranoia for me, as i had just 3 weeks before discovered that everything i had believed for 27 years was only a pipe dream.. everyone was very welcoming, but after only a few posts, i got so afraid i had to stop.

  i was fearful of revealing too much, being somehow discovered, and of the possibility of saying the wrong thing, incurring the ire of my betters here.

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  outnfree

  Hi, Lost!

  I was deeply touched by your post yesterday, but got called away from the board and was unable to respond until now.

  I'm glad, because you've since replied and after saying "Welcome! " I'd like to zero right in on something in your reply to HadEnough that had my brain screaming "WARNING! WARNING!" and it is this:
  

  It was very difficult for me to tell my JW son that in effect everything I had taught him all his life , I now have serious problems with. I did not go into much detail with him, and after the initial conversations, he asks no questions. I know that in his eyes I am damaged goods, and no longer trustworthy spiritually. He is a fair minded man though, and tries hard to treat me normally. He did tell me though that if it came to a choice between me and the cong., he would have to go with the cong. It makes me very sad, but I understand where it is coming from.

  In my case it was my best friend who warned me that if it came to choosing between me and the organization that it would be Jehovah.
  Notice that the organization = Jehovah. After the way you've raised your son, it is likely that he, too, has this viewpoint. Therefore, although I have read you loud and clear that you intend to leave it alone with hime and ease yourself out s-l-o-w-l-y in order to keep your family intact, I have to speak out.

  What I wish for you is not to have happen what happened to me. And that is this: You KNOW how difficult it is to keep quiet about what you have now discovered. Deep in your heart you desperately want your son out of the organization because you have seen it for what truly is. After a time, I just couldn't keep quiet! And so I thought I'd be brilliant and send my friend information that came from Society publications only. She wouldn't read it. Told me not to send her anymore. OK. I didn't. Then I'd discover MORE stuff, and we'd be having a meal together and I would bring something up. And she advised me to go to the elders. I told her I didn't think that would be advisable. But I desisted for another month or so. Then, Questions For Readers came out with some new info on the blood policy. Since I was her advocate, I brought this up at another meal and reasoned on it. She listened. Her view was that the Bible said abstain from ALL blood, however, wouldn't take fractions anyway according to her conscience. OK. I knew that. But I felt I was making headway nonetheless. WRONG!

  She finally told one of the elders that Sister X "had doubts" and that she was worried about her. She didn't tell me she'd told, however. I got a shepherding call a couple of weeks later. This call started the whole ball rolling which ended in my disassociating myself this past March.

  It tore us both up. But I understand that in her mind I'm taking fourth place behind Jehovah, her husband and her son.

  Please be very, very careful not to share any of your newfound research with your JW son. He may listen politely because you're his dear Mom, but in the end he may just be troubled enough to go to the elders about it, and that will be the beginning of the end of the two of you. The heartache will be considerable. MUCH WORSE than the frustration of not being able to bare your heart to someone you love with only the best of intent.

  If you're bursting at the seams -- email ME! I'd love to hear what you've learned. ( [email protected]) The slow fade is the absolute BEST way to leave for those with family members still involved, but is incredibly difficult to execute.

  I hope you'll excuse my lecture if you've already been wise enough to see this clearly for yourself from all the rest of the postings you've read while lurking.

  With only good wishes,
  outnfree

  P.S. I was wondering where Truman'd gone!!!
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  16

  Who Is This Larouche Guy Anyway?

  by Englishman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i keep falling over the sayings of mister larouche everytime that i take a peek at you knows posts.. i decided to investigate some of his writings.

  it seems to me that he has 2 bees in his bonnet, the first is that the usa is about to plunge into economical decline, the second indicates that 'lil' ole england wants to subvert the entire united states and pinch all it's wealth.. can someone give me some background on this fellow?

  is he a respected sort of guy or is he a shrimp short of a seafood salad?

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  outnfree

  E-Man!

  You can be the British James Dean!!!!

  
  outnfree
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  15

  The Mexican Scandal

  by Kent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the mexican scandal is well known, but the documents are not.

  take a look at http://watchtower.observer.org.

  i have published scanned documents, letter from the branch office in mexico, from the watchtower, and from the society's representative in mexico.. this should wake up a few jehovah's witnesses, i guess.. kent

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  outnfree

  Hi all (esp. Mulan),

  I thought that you might need to be reminded that the letters in question were all typed prior to the days of computers when carbon paper was used to make duplicates and typos were corrected either with liquid paper or erased by hand and typed over. It is not surprising to me that there seem to be errors, overstrokes, etc. Take into account that the letters FROM Mexico were typed by elders who were not necessarily professional typists and who were not writing in their native tongue and it is not difficult to understand the typographical and grammatical errors.

  The WT letters are neater of course, because they feel they have a corporate image to maintain AND they were writing in their native tongue!

  just my two cents,
  outnfree
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  13

  Aluminum is dangerous!

  by Kent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the watchtower was extremely preoccupied by what they called aluminum poisoning, and they published death rates because of this in their magazines.

  the increased use of aluminum cooking utensils was the reason for the problem, they said.. not everyone who uses aluminum gets cancer, of course, but all stand a chance of getting it, they wrote in the the golden age september 23.

  1936.. read this article for yourself, and take a closer look at the medical expertise inside the watchtower!.

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  outnfree

  LOL at E-man for educating all us Yanks in the proper pronunciation!!!

  outnfree
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  8

  A Day to Thank Yeru (at least Stateside)

  by outnfree in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  didn't want to let memorial day (u.s.)go by without using my newfound (renewed?

  ) freedom to thank the military personnel who have served to ensure various other freedoms that i enjoy living in this great democracy.. i know only of yeru on this board who is actually in the military, so wanted to single him out.

  if there are any others, please accept my gratitude.. my own father was a marine who fought in wwii and the korean conflict.. i have a cousin who was a career officer in the u.s. navy, and other members of my family who served in the navy or marines.

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  outnfree

  AMEN! wasasister!
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  16

  Do elders have Bible Studies?

  by slipnslidemaster in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in my experience, i have never seen an elder in the congregations that i was associated with bring (or have for that matter) a bible study to the kingdom hall.. now i think that i already know the reason for that, but it seems that the majority of the bible studies are done by the poor sister pioneers.. is this the case in the hall you went to?.

  slipnslidemaster: doin' the humpty hump...just doin' the humpty hump...

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  outnfree

  Yes, the PO at my hall had several studies that resulted in new publishers/baptized Friends.

  I turned over a male study -- a Christian college Greek prof -- to another elder (with the result that that elder left "the truth"!!!).

  But the others are right that many of the elders have difficulty keeping up with their congregational duties and keeping their own families in line theocratically and so don't spend too much time worrying if they're making disciples elsewhere (as long as they get their hours in. )

  outnfree