Posts by outnfree

6

Was Our Faith Tested?

by Big Jim in

jw
friends

i have been having long conversations with my brother in-law who is the only one that will talk to me about the non-truth.. he claims that my attacks on the society in reference to there false prophecy is nothing more then a test on our faith and that the fact that jw's are the only ones that don't teach the immortality of the soul makes them the only true relegion.. how would any of you respond to the the test of our faith response?

outnfree

P.S. And then there'a always:

Test of faith in GOD? or
Test of faith in the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society?

GOD's word always is true.
He's already agreed with you on the faulty record of the WTBTS.

Still, with the wall up, he may not be able to differentiate, so ask him , "Is God's word always true?" THEN, "Have any of his true prophets in the Bible spoken a falsehood, been excused, and allowed to falsely prophesy again?" (Because the WTBTS has made ONLY false prophecies in the past 100+ years.) "So why must we in faith accept any more of the Society's pronouncements?" THEN back to "When a prophet speaks in the name of Yahweh and the thing does not happen and the word is not fulfilled, then it has not been spoken by Yahweh. The prophet has spoken with presumption. You have nothing to fear from him." -- Deut. 18:22 Jerusalem Bible. "Surely you don't want to be following a presumptuous prophet with misguided faith?"

For what it's worth.
outnfree

6

Was Our Faith Tested?

by Big Jim in

jw
friends

i have been having long conversations with my brother in-law who is the only one that will talk to me about the non-truth.. he claims that my attacks on the society in reference to there false prophecy is nothing more then a test on our faith and that the fact that jw's are the only ones that don't teach the immortality of the soul makes them the only true relegion.. how would any of you respond to the the test of our faith response?

outnfree

If you haven't already, you might point out the Biblical test for a false prophet, found at Deut. 18:22.

If you have, and your brother-in-law agrees that the Society has falsely prophesied in the past, you might want to try this using the following from the Reasoning book, page 323:

Because the Society teaches that the soul is not immortal, which make it the true religion in your eyes, is that reason enough "to drink a glass of poisoned water because someone assured you that most of what you were getting was water?" Or is the poison of false prophecy enough to make you want to assure yourself that there isn't any more poison in the glass of water offered? Then kindly explain that this is your dilemma.

Of course, this approach will not work if you have already railed against the Society and bombarded your b-in-law with all sorts of information already.

Another thing that may help is Randy Watters' "Opening the Closed Mind" which you can find at
the http://www.freeminds.org site. As his opening paragraph states:

It is rare to find a Witness who has not seen or heard information exposing the dishonesty of the Watchtower. Why, then, do they not see a problem? Evidently, something else has prevented them from objectively analyzing factual information. Their minds are trained to stop short of doubting the organization - a wall has been erected which says, in effect, "This far you may go, and no further."

This is where your brother-in-law is at, and it's frustrating. Randy's article will suggest how you may sensitvely try to extract your loved ones from the Borg. I think you'll it find very useful.

Be Gentle. Patient. (Hard to do, I know. )

Peace,
outnfree

10

i remembered!!!!

by unanswered in

jw
friends

i'm so bad about remembering these types of things, but, not this time!.

happy birthday, riz!!!.

you are a wonderful friend, and you constantly crack me up!

outnfree

Just wanted to add my good wishes to nate's, Riz!

I really enjoy your quips and comments!

Happy Birthday!
outnfree
(to wish anyone Happy Birthday that I feel like wishing a Happy Birthday! )

20

I agree, LW: Women Should Know Their Proper Place!

by JanH in

jw
friends

like lonewolf, i am much dismayed at the haughty nature of many women on this site.

what is this world coming to, when women dont know their correct position in subjection to men?.

thankfully, gods channel of communication to mankind (tm, patent pending) have always been aware of the matter and addresses the respective positions of men and women.

outnfree

Gee, Jan H!

(who was writing all this tongue-in-cheek, logical)

All those years I filled out my time slips with MY OWN FIRST NAME and no indication of my married status!

I wonder when the "new light" came out on that? Never? Why didn't the elders who served as congregation secretaries "readjust me"?

LOL
outnfree

18

In what order were the NT books written?

by GinnyTosken in

jw
friends

"jude," she [sue bridehead] said brightly, when he had finished and come back to her; "will you let me make you a new new testament, like the one i made for myself at christminster?".

how was that made?".

"i altered my old one by cutting up all the epistles and gospels into separate brochures, and rearranging them in chronological order as written, beginning the book with thessalonians, following on with the epistles, and putting the gospels much further on.

outnfree

Ginny,

I am enjoying this thread and the excerpts VERY much. Thank you for sharing.

The Jerusalem Bible Reader's Edition (which I like because it uses "Yahweh" rather than LORD in the OT and italicizes and footnotes OT scriptures found in the NT text) has these dates for the NT books:

"About the year 50, the oral tradition of the gospel is put into written form: the Aramaic Matthew, and the complementary collection. The Letter of James (or about 58)

"Winter of 50 to summer of 52, Paul in Corinth: the Letters to the Thessalonians'

"After 56(?), Letter to the Philippians.

"About Passover 57, 1 Corinthians. Then a quick visit [by Paul] to Corinth, 2 Co. 12:14. Return to Ephesus and Letter to the Galatians

"End of 57 passes through Macedonia. 2 Corinthians

"Winter 57-58, at Corinth. Ac. 20:3, cf. 1 Co. 16:6; Letter to the Romans

"Summer 58, in Jerusalem. JAMESTHE BROTHER OF THE LORD
heads the Judaeo-Christian community; his Letter to the Jews of the dispersion (or possibly before 49)

"61-63, Paul in Rome under military guard. His apostolate, Letters to Colossians, Ephesians, Philemon (and to Philippians?)

"About 64, 1 Peter and the Gospel of Mark

"About 65, Paul at Ephesus, 1 Tm.1:3; in Crete, Tt 1:5; in Macedonia, whence he sends his 1st Letter to Timothy, 1 Tm. 1:3; and probably Titus

"The Greek Gospel of Matthew; the Gospel of Luke and the Acts of the Apostles: before 70? or about 80?

"About 67, Letters to the Hebrews. Paul, a prisoner in Rome, writes 2 Timothy. A little later he is beheaded.

"70-80 the Letter of Jude, then 2 Peter.

"About 95, John exiled to Patmos. Final text of Revelation.

"Gospel of John; then 1 John (3 John and 2 John are possibly earlier).

I think it probably IS most enlightening to read the books in order, and I think I'll do just that. Then I'll see if a copy of The Five Gospels is at my library.

I can't put my hands on my NIV Quest Study Bible at the moment ... I'll post later if a comparison between it and the JB above points up any major discrepancies.

Slipandslide,

Thanks for the link!

outnfree

20

Time to move on

by joelbear in

jw
friends

well most of its been fun guys and gals.. but i'm outta here.

i am much happier thinking about other things.

i just realized that as long as i keep coming here i am still a slave of the watchtower.. big farewell hugs.

outnfree

Joelbear!

I just wanted to say that I've enjoyed your posts very much. You seem to be such a caring guy and I, too, understand your need to get away from ALL things JW, including us ranting ex-JWs.

All the best and do drop in every once in a while (every blue moon?)

Remember we're here if you need us.

Love,
outnfree

115

Randall Watters exposed

by StiLLinTruth in

jw
friends

hello again friends!.

well it was time again for me to take my weekly dose of apostate faeces and see what it tastes like.

decided to check out randy watters this time (we all love him here) and his little testimony on freeminds.org, titled "what happened at bethel in 1980?

outnfree

Dear Still,

I had a moment of regret after I dashed off my "AND it shows" thinking that perhaps I should refute many of your cited Bible texts with others that added insight, or just reminding you of the context as Had Enough has done.

(Aside to Had Enough: I just love the way your name fits in so nicely with so many concluding thoughts in your posts! )

And I was right to have that moment of regret, for as JT has reminded all of us, "persecuting" StiLLinTruth only validated his/her status as a true Christian. In fact, we all remember that there is no point arguing Scripture with a newly converted one. Any of us who were not born in the organization and who were converted were righteously certain that we had "the Truth" and that it had set us free.

Those of us who are inactive, da'd, df'd, or just brave enough to be posting here, also know that it took most of us many years of self-doubt before we allowed ourselves to "hear" what we didn't want to:
the realization that the organization to which we had exclusively devoted ourselves was NOT Christ-like in its deeds -- true love, compassion and mercy were lacking. This knowledge shook us to our very cores. It was hurtful to admit. Many felt angst about how we had treated non-believing family members and friends -- with the disdain and disregard for feelings with which the congregation would certainly treat us the minute we spoke aloud the message that our hearts played loudly and clearly now in our minds. And the pain certainly did come, and the shunning certainly did commence once we left (or left off emotionally).

So, I want to publicly apologize, SiT, for my unthinking remark. I do not want to be guilty of being hurtful and making you feel as though your point of view doesn't count for anything.

Yes, the tone of this forum should be welcoming and non-judgmental.

SiT, many here have suffered mightily from abuses of power within the organization or just from what they feel to be extra-Biblical requirements which have nothing to do with becoming a footstep follower of Christ Jesus and everything to do with becoming a drone in the organization which self-proclaims itself to be Jehovah's.

Please do not send condemnatory posts. The same points you made could have been expounded in a more civil way. And our retorts might've been very different.

I hope you will accept my apology.

outnfree

6

144,000 epileptics?

by SixofNine in

jw
friends

ok, so that might be the superbole of hyperbole, but this is velly, velly interestink!

http://www.newscientist.com/features/features.jsp?id=ns22871

outnfree

LOL, six! DEFINITELY better than schizophrenia (that would be the REST of my family!!!)

I'm thinking that I perhaps I was too young to "THINK BIG"! I only thought my ghost was my Nana -- perhaps I should've set my sights on Jesus

Thanks again for the link. I may be buying one or more of the books.

6

144,000 epileptics?

by SixofNine in

jw
friends

ok, so that might be the superbole of hyperbole, but this is velly, velly interestink!

http://www.newscientist.com/features/features.jsp?id=ns22871

outnfree

Actually, the spectre didn't "look" like anyone, which is what made the research all the more interesting to me. I just "felt" it was my Nana, of whom I had no conscious recollection although she lived with us until she died (because she had had a stroke) until I was 2.

Maybe I was just in need of "mothering" without wanting my own mother to know too much about why I was hurting? Dunno. Because the Message I felt was, "It'll be okay." Where I got that it came from my Nana, I have NO idea.

Strange.

I wasn't trying to refute the info in the article. I actually was wondering aloud where the magnetic field came from? "She" was a vaporous, translucent being standing at the foot of my bed.

Thanks, six.
outnfree

20

Is Singleness a Blessing? Sometimes

by wasasister in

jw
friends

this post is rather personal, but it may help those who lurk, so if you will all please bear with me?.

not long ago, i visited the town where i grew up, got baptized and married, gave birth to both my daughters.

its a smallish town and among the witness population, everyone knows everyone.

outnfree

Wasasister,

OUTSTANDING post!

I was just visiting my mother last weekend and she handed me a book to take with me. It's entitled "Raise Your Right Hand Against Fear Extend the Other in Compassion" by Sheldon Kopp.

The frontispiece relates this bit from the Epilogue:

"During his final incarnation, the Buddha seated himself under the Tree of Enlightenment. There he practiced the meditation that would take him to the threshold of release from fear and other forms of suffering. When the Evil One assaulted him with terrible armies of dark and devouring monsters, the Buddha sustained his safety with a mudra, raising his right hand against fear. He then extended his other hand in the mudra of compassion, and announced his decision to go on facing his fears in this life so that the protection of his understanding would remain available until the last of us had also attained enlightenment."

Thanks, "Buddha"!
outnfree