well as a few here know, and for those who dont i've had an ongoing study with a few of the elders from my wifes congregation.. i was quite suprised when one of the elders, i think the less experienced one asked the following question of me.. what is your purpose for getting together for this study, as it seems obvious to me that your not willing to be open minded concerning what we have to share with you today?.
i responded that his question really hurt my feelings, and that he shouldnt assume that i wasnt open to what they had to share, simply because i checked everything they shared with scripture.. i pointed out that the bereans did the same when paul preached.
i went on to explain that his statement made me feel as if it wasnt about my salvation that they were concerned about, but getting me to become a member of the orginization.. needless to say the older of the two stepped in and tried to dance his way out of this uncomfortable situation, by putting me at ease and trying to reassure me that my salvation was the subject, and not membership in the society.. they seemed to become uncomfortable everytime i used the word society, this i couldnt understand.
Robert,
I guess we're the night owls tonight. I'm off to bed, but I'm glad I read your post before retiring.
I will certainly keep your wife and her family in my prayers. I feel that I was prayed out of the Organization, so I know it will work, God willing!
Looking forward to the next installment!
outnfree
not as quickly as hippikon, mind you!
or danielle, who would have done it a week - easy!
she did 100 posts in one day!
Sorry I missed this the other day:
Hooray!!!!
outnfree
the loving r&f at the beck and call of the fds are at it again.
this time they're getting their jollies over visions of death and destruction at armageddon!.
http://www.witnessesonline.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/witnessesonline/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=21&t=000024.
And, er, WHY would you then be going to the Kingdom Hall on Sunday afternoon????
Still Nosy,
outnfree
suspect in alaskan school stabbings ignores judge.
anchorage, alaska, may 8 (reuters) - a man arrested for allegedly slashing the throats of four anchorage children outside their school refused to answer a judge's questions at a court hearing on tuesday, then urged onlookers to kill themselves and their children.
jason pritchard, 33, was arraigned in state superior court on four charges of attempted murder and four charges of first-degree assault.
I don't know, maybe I'm just "thick" but I fail to see where anyone "painted an entire organization with a crazy brush." LovesDubs merely posted the articles, verbatim. Mommie Dark posted some more information and added these editorial comments at the end:
His cult experience has fed his insanity in the most horrible ways. I wonder which came first, the cult indoctrination or the insanity.
(A little hyperbole, here, too, Naeblis?)
LovesDubs makes the further comment:
...most of the studies I was involved with people who were emotionally unbalanced in the first place. The wacko stuff they feed you in the organization only fuels that.
So, the consensus at that point (and I later concurred) was that while Jason Pritchard was certainly an emotionally unbalanced person in the first place, his association with the Watch Tower Society may have exacerbated his delusional behavior due to their odd outlook on sex practices and paradise.
The above in no way "paints an entire organization with a crazy brush" nor does it make the Society responsible for Mr. Pritchard's crimes.
What it DOES do is to posit that because there were religious overtones to his rantings about killing the children first, adults afterwards and because he had been promoting suicide at the local Kingdom Hall, that his association with the JW religion put ideas into an already warped mind with tragic results.
And that is ALL.
Until, of course, things got heated!
So nobody is looking "at one man's incident to blame a whole cult" for the knifing of the four young children.
The cult IS to blame, however, for the mindset described in Tina's post that "those who can't, won't change, or convert are thought better off dead!" THAT is sick.
outnfree
on april 2nd i purchased the domain name www.do-not-call.org .
a few weeks later i posted a comment on the thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=3941&site=3.
it was titled 'can you stop the preaching work?'.
VERY Cool!
Count me in!
outnfree
it seems that many who post on this board hold that the jw organization is a fraud, schemed mainly bu the g.b.
members.
but so far i have never read something as to the reasons behind the fraud.
Nickita,
I have a serious problem with something alluded to above by Bigboi when he says "a key insight into their character is how they react when a false statement made by them is brought to their attention."
How much havoc actually IS wreaked on loyal Jehovah's Witnesses when they are said to "run ahead" of the organization and are penalized for recognizing a false doctrine and feeling conscience-bound to resist or ignore it? There are many instances of "flip-flops" in Watchtower doctrine. If just 1/10 of 1% of Witnesses saw the error in some of these doctrines and were disfellowshipped or disassociated themselves because of refusing to accept "new light" how many families were torn asunder? How many friendships lost? How many persons were left spiritually adrift, feeling emotionally overwrought because they were GOOD JW's but just couldn't toe the new line?
Now tell me this: how many of those who "ran ahead" and were DF'd were invited back into the Organization once the Governing Body changed direction yet again? Please find me ONE and I'll feel much, much better about how the GB wields its power as "GOD's organization"!!! (It seems blasphemous to even write that. Sigh!) God doesn't make such mistakes that hurt his faithful adherents -- does He? God forgives doesn't he?
I think the others have made enough points about the benefits of membership in the GB and Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz might be a good read for you so that you can understand the inner workings. You will be surprised.
One last note: I was having doubts and having doubts, but not taking any action. My husband is Catholic, so our children attend Catholic schools. I received home a note that was letting parents know about all the special arrangements that were going to be made because the Bishop was going to come to school to celebrate mass! A special luncheon, children performing special songs, parents invited to have a role in the Mass. It emotionally paralled so perfectly all the hype and excitement that comes with a CO or DO visit to the Kingdom Hall that it finally dawned on me that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society was just another overgrown, out of touch, hierarchical BUSINESS. We had Brooklyn. They had the Vatican. -- With all the layers of "special ones" in between! (And that was BEFORE I read C of C!)
Take the rose-colored glasses off, sweetie. The GB members have PLENTY of prominence -- among the JW rank & file, which is where it counts, in their view!
outnfree
recently,i noticed that some teenagers and "weak" publishers.
weren't actually shunning my step-daughter.
i warned her to meet.
HUNH? GASP!!!
That is just SICK, LDH! I am truly astonished! (Guess I shouldn't be by now, but I am!)
"True repentance" means actively avoiding ones who reach out to show Christian love at the risk of getting in trouble themselves? (Loving you as Christ loved his disciples???? HMMMMM?) You must be RUDE to be repentant?!!
I think I'll go throw up now!
outnfree
suspect in alaskan school stabbings ignores judge.
anchorage, alaska, may 8 (reuters) - a man arrested for allegedly slashing the throats of four anchorage children outside their school refused to answer a judge's questions at a court hearing on tuesday, then urged onlookers to kill themselves and their children.
jason pritchard, 33, was arraigned in state superior court on four charges of attempted murder and four charges of first-degree assault.
Naeblis,
MommieDark did not say "Witnesses cause all evil." That is hyperbole on YOUR part, and if you're honest, you will recognize that.
I haven't yet read the Anchorage papers and perhaps they DO have more insight on whether or not Pritchard's involvement with the Witnesses influenced his behavior.
I agree with you that cases like this are evidence of EXTREME mental imbalance. But I also agree with Loves that many unhappy or unbalanced people are attracted to the Witnesses in the first place, making the "we are the happy people serving our Happy God, Jehovah" line most certainly misleading at best, a downright lie at worst.
Yes, Pritchard is a VERY extreme case, but it is not so hard to follow his reasoning (if you're a JW!). If the children all die before puberty perhaps they won't grow up to be dirty pedophiles like himself (hence the attempts at castration?) and be doomed to die at Armageddon! -- OR -- If the children all die now, BEFORE Armageddon, they'll all have a chance at everlasting life, which they might lose if they grow up and commit fornication of some kind (visiting massage parlors?)
This man obviously HATES himself and is a pervert. He is NOT representative of all Jehovah's Witnesses, of course not! But to me, at least, these scenarios would never have entered his mind if he didn't love/hate children at the same time (love them because he has a sick attraction to their unspoiled innocence/hate them because he has a sick attaction to their unspoiled innocence) and wish to help them avoid the agony of his own miserable, conflicted existence by keeping them pure.
As the Watchtower Society promotes the distinct teaching that those who die before Armageddon will be resurrected to paradise on earth, the children are safer dead! Safe from Mr. Pritchard, safe from possible destruction later. From his point of view it's the kind thing.
Also, the confusion about bringing them "home" to Jesus? Well, he IS mentally unbalanced and this COULD BE a confusion with doctrines of Christendom. Nonetheless, Jesus DOES love the little children. And it IS Jesus who is coming as King to fight the battle at Armageddon and oversee Jehovah's Kingdom thereafter, so perhaps not.
I'm with Mommie: "His cult experience has fed his insanity in the most horrible ways."
outnfree
well as a few here know, and for those who dont i've had an ongoing study with a few of the elders from my wifes congregation.. i was quite suprised when one of the elders, i think the less experienced one asked the following question of me.. what is your purpose for getting together for this study, as it seems obvious to me that your not willing to be open minded concerning what we have to share with you today?.
i responded that his question really hurt my feelings, and that he shouldnt assume that i wasnt open to what they had to share, simply because i checked everything they shared with scripture.. i pointed out that the bereans did the same when paul preached.
i went on to explain that his statement made me feel as if it wasnt about my salvation that they were concerned about, but getting me to become a member of the orginization.. needless to say the older of the two stepped in and tried to dance his way out of this uncomfortable situation, by putting me at ease and trying to reassure me that my salvation was the subject, and not membership in the society.. they seemed to become uncomfortable everytime i used the word society, this i couldnt understand.
7Robert7,
I am so impressed!!! (and with hippikon's graphic, too!)
Please, if you would, let me know the WT issue you referenced with that cover on it? I've never heard of it, but it could be quite powerful with a particular brother whose family wants him out...
How nice that your wife is seeing the Org. rendered speechless (the elders in this case representing the Org.)! Would your wife be willing to prod these two by asking at the next meeting what they've found and when they're going to get back to you?
"Open-minded." Shame that as far as the SOCIETY goes, the only thing one is supposed to me open-minded about is the ideas and doctrines promoted by itself!
I sincerely hope that these elders will come back to study with you, as I think it may help your wife to leave. (Which I assume is the objective?)
Again, Bravo!!!
outnfree
....this is only my second post, so please be gentle!!!
thank you all for such a wonderful, supporting, loving, caring forum... where the truth at last can be spoken!!!
...i have soooooo many posts to make, and soooooo little time!!!
Welcome, P.B.!
I'm sure you'll enjoy the free exchange of ideas that is this discussion board.
outnfree
