outnfree

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Posts by outnfree

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  10

  door-to-door records

  by philo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm trying to get a picture of how d-d records are used.

  particularly, with regard to household security, are 'persistent nhs' kept in the maps in your area?.

  i used to file the cong maps, and we kept old d-d records back to target these persistents at unusual times.

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  outnfree

  Philo,

  I'm in the midst of running a garage sale at the moment, but I will search the OM book today as I still have a copy during dull moments (hope I don't nod off and customers take off with the goods!!! ).

  Later, I'll search the KMs.

  outnfree
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  5

  New Song for the JW Songbook

  by COMF in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  (sung to the tune of "woodstock").

  i came upon a slave of man.

  he was walking along the road.

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  outnfree

  Excellent, Comf, excellent!

  outnfree
• 
  76

  I attended the meeting tonight.....

  by silentlambs in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i went to the meeting tonight to check out things in the local congregation.

  this spiritual paradise is showing a few cracks.

  when i arrived about ten minutes before the meeting started, i felt like a ghost.

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  outnfree

  No, Danny, No.
  
  I am NOT using a parody when I state that MY children would want to know those things. Because I always impressed upon them that participation was a way to outwardly demonstrate one's devotion to Jehovah AND to support the elder giving the part, that actually WOULD have been their reaction. As would the questioning afterwards about why Brother Bowen was being shunned if he wasn't disfellowshipped?
  They would feel badly that he was being treated badly. I raised HUMANS (not a one enslaved to the Borg, thank god!) not WT-automatons! (I used to view that as a failure, but now rejoice in it!)

  The tone of your posts is VERY JUDGMENTAL, DannyBear, something that most of us here have FLED and do not miss AT ALL!

  (Seeker,
  Please note that the "reminders" given silentlambs here were not "friendly."
  outnfree)

  Perhaps people DID switch congregations "like hats, back in the late 70's", but you really can't say that Brother Bowen should have to nor should have to WANT to drive to another congregation to worship. As I said in my previous post, perhaps he WAS testing the waters. WHY do you have such a problem with that? He took the Society (local elders)'s word that he was still a member in good standing, not even reproved, and when he went to see if he would still be TREATED as a member in good standing it was the VERY sad eye-opener he related above. (Perhaps he held out a tiny spark of hope that one of his long-standing friends would demonstrate some loving-kindness?)

  Brother Bowen, in the interest of his cause (please perk up your ears here, Joelbear), has not expressed himself publicly on just how he feels about Jehovah God and his worship within the organization. He is working hard to expose what he feels is a terrible injustice wreaked on the victims of pedophilia due to a policy of the Watch Tower Society. It is this that "he wholeheartedly condemns." He wants to see the policy change so that victims are not re-victimized and fertile ground for new victims will not be found within Jehovah's organization.

  Now you and/or I may not feel that the WTBTS IS Jehovah's Organization, but that is not Brother Bowen's cause. His attendance at the meeting demonstrates that neither his cause nor his honest desire to effect a change for the better is anything of which to be ashamed. It reminds the local brothers that they have some "cleaning up" to do. It reminds all publishers in attendance that you can keep your integrity and you SHOULD keep your integrity. It should inspire all of them not to be hypocritical, and might inspire SOME of them to support Brother Bowen's cause.

  Further, I don't think a single person here questioned the legality of the brother shadowing Brother Bowen, just the propriety (or maybe the idiocy) of such an action.

  As to whether or not Brother Bowen would WANT to share "in the
  worship of Jehovah with those he knows to be sexual predators" how many of us were doing just that for years without ever knowing? So who are you to decide if he could bear to do so just one more time?

  His raising his hand to answer, his mirroring the attendant, his very presence at the KH were all absolutely FINE. They were NOT wrong actions, at all. (The burning rubber was a case of "temporary humanity" -- who among us is not guilty of having done something similar [or worse!] when feeling hurt and angry?)

  YES, our dear silentlambs has a responsibility to ALL the silentlambs.
  He has thus far fulfilled that responsibility in a wonderfully inspiring way.

  Why cannot you see that though the Society and many, many of its members will seize upon the "very, very minor" things to try to besmirch Brother Bowen's reputation, the "very, very HEINOUS" things the Society has to answer for will out, and will condemn, and there will be no hiding, and no room for the "clean, Christian, moral, united, worldwide congregation" to be excused from their utter lack of love.

  "God is love," they proclaim.
  "By this all will know YOU are my disciples, if YOU have love among YOURSELVES," they proudly apply to themselves.

  The 60 or so members of Bill Bowen's congregation (and the posters on this board) may have just "seen" a small act of frustration on his part, as Venice pointed out.

  Very soon, MILLIONS will know that Jehovah's Witnesses do NOT have love among themselves, for they will not lovingly protect even the weakest, most vulnerable among them -- the silentlambs.

  There is no comparison.

  So let's give Brother Bowen the same thing we've each afforded ourselves here on this forum: a place to vent our hurts and frustrations and reveal the injustices visited upon us and others by members of the "Christian" Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses.

  Perhaps we should all stop arguing now and instead look into buying some local advertising space in support of silentlambs and his work.

  outnfree
• 
  9

  FBI FILES

  by Yerusalyim in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just for your info, you can look to see if the fbi has a file on you at the following web site.

  i recommend against using your ssn to check this out.. yeru.

  click here: http://www.policeguide.com/cgi-bin/criminal-search.

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  outnfree

  I was having one of my really bad hair days! (And it's when I was going reddish brown instead of dark ash brown, too!)

  Does anyone know if there's a way to send the FBI an updated file photo? Mine would be more recent AND more flattering!!!

  outnfree
• 
  76

  I attended the meeting tonight.....

  by silentlambs in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i went to the meeting tonight to check out things in the local congregation.

  this spiritual paradise is showing a few cracks.

  when i arrived about ten minutes before the meeting started, i felt like a ghost.

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  outnfree

  Okay, I have to weigh in on this, too, now.

  DannyBear and Joel,

  This is one of the few times that I've wholeheartedly disagreed with your posts.

  Brother Bowen is one of Jehovah's Witnesses. Brother Bowen has not even been reproved. Brother Bowen DID speak some truth about disgusting goings on in the WT Organization, but that does not mean he no longer has a right to attend the Kingdom Hall to worship (Jah --not the GB). Brother Bowen may even have "gotten something out of the meetings" IF he had not been privy to the information about the brothers chosen to present the good and timely spiritual food and the hypocrisy and wrongness of the choices.

  Something all of us may forget, all the while applauding silentlambs and his cause, and wishing ferverently for its success in reforming the Watch Tower's policies:

  Silentlambs IS a real victim!

  Maybe I should restate that one more time for emphasis:

  Silentlambs IS a real victim!

  He has become a "real victim" because of becoming an [outstanding, upright, honest, and courageous] ADVOCATE for even MORE [powerless and downtrodden] VICTIMS!

  His entire family are victims (although he has never tried to portray himself or them as such in anything I've read). Victims of a vicious policy of shunning -- whether official or not. They have done nothing worthy of disfellowshipping but are clearly anathema to the congregation.

  Perhaps, just perhaps, Brother Bowen had something appropriate and insightful to say when he raised his hand to comment at last night's meeting. YES, he may have been testing the waters, but why shouldn't he? Does not being reproved actually MEAN not being reproved or doesn't it.

  And he was perfectly entitled to practice mirroring (thanks for the term, Tina!). It IS idiotic for the elders to assign a "shadow" for undf'd Brother Bowen everywhere he goes in the KH.
  Would the two of you actually DEFEND this intimidating practice?

  Joel, honey, I can't believe how HARSH you were in saying silentlambs was engaging in attention-seeking behavior! And that sharing his experience here on the forum was "adolescent." Following the attendant around was not "getting even" it was, as Had Enough pointed out, a way of making the attendant see how ridiculous it all was, and a way of letting the attendant know that Brother Bowen was aware of what was going on.

  Now, the burning rubber part may have been a tad "adolescent" -- but Brother Bowen is not perfect yet. He is a man like us, as was Elijah. I think we, and the rest of the world, can forgive him his little foible. The "silentlambs" movement will not suffer too much from Bill's "temporary humanity."

  Danny Bear,

  Brother Bowen, despite his mirroring and pealing out did NOT, NOT, NOT attempt to "repay in kind" the kind of treatment he was given by the cold-hearted, hypocritical Witnesses at his "home" Kingdom Hall.
  The INTENT behind his shadowing his "Shadow" was to bring home the point that his "Shadow" was not at all subtle and that silentlambs was AWARE. The pealing out did not come close to causing anybody at that hall the psychological harm exercised towards unDF'd Brother Bowen that evening!

  If I were sitting there in that meeting with MY children, MY children would want to know why ex-elder Brother Bowen was not being called on, even though he was trying his darnedest to show his love for Jehovah by participating in the meeting as so often admonished to do by the faithful and discreet slave.

  From what I read, Brother Bowen behaved in an exemplary manner (well, maybe he could've remained in his seat and not taken a bathroom break, because he IS an adult and he should have 'taken care of that business' BEFORE the meeting as I always told my children! The time between the meetings is NOT a bathroom break time, after all, singing praises to Jehovah is PART OF OUR WORSHIP!) and exercised great restraint.

  MY children, DannyBear, would have wanted to know why everybody was ignoring nice, dear old Brother Bowen. They would be ASKING, "Is he disfellowshipped then?" "No." "Then why isn't anyone talking to him?" CHILDREN, DannyBear, see things very clearly. And the MOLESTED children in that KH saw very well last night WHO was up on that platform giving a part, and who was being IGNORED.

  silentlambs,

  I'm just about WORN OUT here, getting my Irish up and all, because you ARE unfairly being held to a higher standard than "human."

  What some here may have forgotten is that you are just as newly out as several of us, that your wounds are just as open and unhealed, that in addition to dealing with your own mourning process, and the rest of your family's, you have taken it upon yourself to CRUSADE for the SILENT VICTIMS!

  I, for one, am EXTREMELY, unabashedly grateful and admiring, and if, after reading some of these responses you want to go hop in your pick-up truck and peal out of your driveway just to let off some steam, I say:

  You just go right ahead, now, darlin'! Lay that rubber down THICK!!!

  Love,
  outnfree
• 
  2

  Any Corporate PR Types Here?

  by outnfree in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is anyone here employed either as a public relations rep. or at a large corporation with a vibrant pr dept.?.

  in an effort to properly publicize the upcoming do-not-call service, we are in need of a multimedia mailing list.

  i know from past experience that something like bacon's or burrelle's lists are pretty much the cream of the crop.

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  outnfree

  Hi, all!

  Is anyone here employed either as a Public Relations Rep. or at a large corporation with a vibrant PR dept.?

  In an effort to properly publicize the upcoming Do-Not-Call service, we are in need of a multimedia mailing list. I know from past experience that something like Bacon's or Burrelle's lists are pretty much the cream of the crop. Problem is: best deal on a set for this year (which is half over) is USD 500.00 or so from Burrelle's. (Reg. price is around $1,200.00)

  If any of you fit the bill mentioned above, we may be able to get one for free if you can smooth-talk the PR dept. into donating its obsolete copy. (We don't mind the 1999 or 2000 edition!)

  I've made an inquiry of my own this morning, and am waiting to hear, but thought I'd float the idea.

  Is there any similar mailing list resource in the UK, Canada, France, Mexico, etc. that we should be considering?

  Thanks for your support.
  outnfree
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  13

  TO ALL LURKERS- IS THIS GOING TO FAR......

  by JT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://rancher.freeservers.com/catalog.html .

  in protecting the org at all cost.

  here is an example of what the wt mindset does to it's members esp the elders.

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  outnfree

  Hi, all.

  (Thanks for the compliments, JT!)

  The thread is, indeed, "Murder Letter" with the following link: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=5424&site=3

  A related link is "Ecclesiastical Privilege": http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/form/thread.asp?id=5476&site=3

  Happy reading!

  outnfree
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  51

  I am stunned!!...CharitablePlanning

  by sf in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i feel like i did when i first read ray's book crisis of conscience"; like i was punched deep in the gut and can't catch my breath.. i took someones suggestion here to call the: .

  charitable planning office.

  watchtower bible and tract society of pennsylvania.

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  outnfree

  Thanks, osarsif,

  for the link,

  and to Kent for scanning and posting the entire brochure!!!

  outnfree
  (who also loved UncleBruce's quip! Masterful!)
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  10

  Baptismal Questions

  by LovesDubs in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was baptized june 1, 1985. thats the day they started using the new baptismal questions in their baptismal talk on the baptismal day to all the baptismal candidates.

  did any of you actually hear those questions they made you stand up to hear read?

  would any of us at that moment in time actually have said anything but a resounding "yes!!!

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  outnfree

  Joelbear,

  YES!!!

  At least, it seems to me just the sort of technicality the WTBTS would use to wriggle its way out of an uncomfortable and self-detrimental situation.

  Loves,

  Thanks for posting these. I couldn't find them when I wanted them on another thread.

  I realized that the Father and Son were acknowledged in the first question, but recognition of the holy spirit by the baptismal candidate personally is not a part of the baptism. So WAS it a valid baptism?

  I thought not, so about a month ago, I was considering beng baptized again, but now I'm not sure I believe in the Judeo-Christian God anymore anyway, so it's a moot point for me. For others who DO believe, they may want to contemplate a REAL and honest baptism.

  Peace.
  outnfree
• 
  13

  TO ALL LURKERS- IS THIS GOING TO FAR......

  by JT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://rancher.freeservers.com/catalog.html .

  in protecting the org at all cost.

  here is an example of what the wt mindset does to it's members esp the elders.

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  outnfree

  This letter was brought up maybe 10 days ago, and I commented then that while the brothers might not have a LEGAL OBLIGATION to report this murderer to the authorities, they certainly had a MORAL OBLIGATION to tell him that to really be right with God, he needed to repent, confess(to the authorities, not just to the elders), and to pay the consequences (civil, not just spiritual). Fearful though he (and THEY!!!) might be, works befitting repentance are NOT just meeting attendance and field service. If he "did the crime" he should "do the time." If that means his eventual execution -- Florida does have 'Old Sparky' -- at least he dies with a clean conscience and will wake up in paradise, right?

  But what really just got me on THIS thread was Undecided's "Sort of like the Catholic confession rite."

  It never ceases to amaze me how the WTBTS can talk out of both sides of its mouth! The above observation is correct. The WTBTS' Legal Dept. is using the clergy-penitent confidentiality law to excuse and recuse themselves from having to inform secular authorities of confessed crimes brought to their attention, and yet the Public Affairs Dept. is claiming that there IS no clergy class -- and that the elders are unpaid, untrained, voluntary shepherds, while the Service/Writing Dept. is urging Witnesses to give double honor to "those taking the lead among" them -- which translates into the elders, the P.O., the C.O., the D.O., the Zone and Branch Committees, and the Governing Body! (If these aren't clergy "classes" I don't know what is!) These "gifts in men" are special -- appointed by holy spirit!

  All of [adult?] Jehovah's Witnesses are "ordained ministers" at baptism, yet only "qualified elders" are allowed to speak to researchers about the religion. (See the recent threads about the Chicago District Conventions posted by expatBrit and the Letter to the Body of Elders posted by Marvin Shilmer.)

  It seems to me that courts of law everywhere need to be fully apprised that this "we are all brothers [and sisters - implied]" bulls t is just that: bunk, cow patties, etc.! There IS a heirarchy, despite everybody wearing the same "uniform". And the local judicial committee holds the power of life and death (spiritual and relationship-wise) over the rank and file. And women in the organization have NO power at all, except the pioneers/nuns who are an influence for good among us ("Sell more magazines like us!" "Is your WT studied yet?")!

  The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society is dishonest and wicked when it uses clergy-penitent confidentiality as an excuse for harboring criminals within its Organization. If all baptized publishers are ministers, then ALL are clergy, ergo -- there IS no "confessional". OR, alternatively, if all elders are mere "brothers" on an equal footing with all other "brothers and sisters", then, there IS no "confessional".

  So, 'fess up, Brooklyn, THERE IS A CLERGY CLASS! Stop lying to the public. Stop lying to yourselves. Stop lying to the publishers. You are no better than the other religionists and your legal defense makes MUCH more sense if you can just admit this to all!

  outnfree