Posts by outnfree

31

Subtle Propaganda at DC -but Noticeable To Us

by Had Enough in

jw
friends

as ive mentioned in other posts, i felt obligated to go to the dc (in hamilton) this weekend to help my family with my aging mom, who in my opinion just goes for the social outing because she is physically not able to stay awake for more that 1/5 th of the whole sessions except intermissions.. i know others have posted their observations of the dc they attended but id like to make an addition from things that just jumped right out at me and made me go argggghhhhh!.

and btw....i felt some of the comments made seemed to be as though they were answering their justification of some of the things being brought out on the internet, including here.. on friday, even in talks that were not about higher education, they managed to slip in their subtle propaganda, as in:.

- bob alton, said peter and john were outspoken about gods word and were unlettered and ordinary men they didnt need higher education to speak wondrous things of god.

outnfree

Had Enough,

Thanks for the post.

That Korah vs. Moses theme was used by my local elders at the meeting they held with me after I submitted my DA letter - LOL!!! (And wasn't the drama with that same theme only, like, TWO years ago? Talk about 'repetition for emphasis'! -- and ditto for the "[non]-pursuit of higher education!)

I had to add to Ozzie's point about John and Peter (btw, wasa, LOVED your totally "WT spirit-directed" rebuttal! ).

John and Peter already had a trade that would earn them a living. But once they became disciples, they were to become ministers who were "workmen worthy of their wages." In other words, they were PAID CLERGY!!! Maybe not paid in cash -- but in shelter, food, clothing -- by the congregations they served! They certainly didn't go back to fishing -- they were chastened by Christ for having done that (according to John's gospel). At least, the above is what I infer from the Bible. Who BUT Paul makes a point of saying he toiled at a secular job so as not to burden the congregations? (Perhaps a bit of grandstanding on his part?-- Look at me, learned Paul, I'm sewing tents in the marketplace, earning respect from the other merchants, while using this venue to effective further my mission of spreading the good news.)

Who among us wouldn't be willing to put up with -- house & feed -- itinerant preacher of a message that appealed to us? And in the Mediterranean world of the 1st century (heck! even today!) that would be perfectly in character.

But John and Peter (and Paul) were SPECIALLY APPOINTED by Christ Jesus -- members of the anointed, in JW speak, as well!!!

Today, your average JW minister, has NO personal experience with Christ and is NOT a member of the anointed. He's just 'a man like us'. And thus can get his own butt out the door to provide for himself and his family -- just like we do! And therefore, should be allowed to do WHATEVER IT TAKES (including higher education) so as not to be a burden on the brothers. IMHO.

outnfree
(ruefully laughing!)

35

new Britian elder letters: molestation

by Dogpatch in

something i just read, proofs are at:.

http://thetruthhurts.freeservers.com/.

dear brothers:.

outnfree

OK, I just went to the site Randy directed us to for the "proofs" and when I tried to copy the Society's letter, there is a huge left margin on the page my printer copied out which prevents the right margin of the letter being seen.

So could one of you computer whizzes out there please explain how I can change the size of the . jpg file that is this letter so that I can make the 100 or so copies I plan to distribute in my area?

Thanks ever so much! (and to you, too, Randy for finding this, and for whomever is running thetruthhurts, too, for posting it!)

outnfree

35

new Britian elder letters: molestation

by Dogpatch in

something i just read, proofs are at:.

http://thetruthhurts.freeservers.com/.

dear brothers:.

outnfree

What a perfect way to start my day with a sudden need to vomit from the turbulent churning of my stomach when reading this disgusting bit of illogical, self-centered claptrap that passes for an explanation for how to keep "God's" organization clean while complying with the British law of the land!!!

I first read the letter at about 7:00 AM EST, and only now got back to finish reading the replies. I have been nauseous ever since -- and I am not even a victim of abuse at the hands of the Tower! I cannot imagine how the silentlambs (some not so silent now) on this board feel when reading yet another convoluted attempt by the Society to cover the collective asses of the pedophiles among them!

I am outraged, as I think any thinking person would be.

I now have a new letter to deliver to congregation members in my area.
I had sort of promised myself that after my DC push I would devote a certain $ amount each month to keeping the pressure on and increasing awareness of the problem. When payday comes on Friday, I know just what I'll be copying at Kinko's!!! I urge as many of you whose circumstances allow it to do the same. A copy of a scanned Society letter delivered to active Witness doors could have great impact!

The fact that

if the branch office has decided that [a former child abuser who is currently serving as an elder or ministerial servant] can be appointed or continue serving in a position of trust because the sin occurred many years ago and because he has lived an exemplary life since then, his name should not appear on the List, nor is it necessary to pass on information about the brother’s past sin if he moves to another congregation unless contrary instructions have been given by the branch.

will be alarming to many right-hearted Witnesses.

Please consider doing something similar in your area.

outnfree
(who usually eats when she's upset, but really -- just --
cannot! This is so vile!)

15

We have named them!

by LDH in

jw
friends

eden got two kittens over the weekend.. it took about 36 hours but we have decided on names.. the boy is george and the girl is weezy.. a prize to whoever guesses correctly first.

outnfree

They're all pussies, MD!

LOL

Very clever, btw!

outnfree

6

JEHOVAH, GOD OF LOVE...........

by JW72 in

jw
friends

hi everyone, i was just wondering exactly what it is jehovah is supposed to have done that is 'loving'??.

howcome it is the 'preachers' that fear feeling bloodguilt when it is much easier for jehovah to do what they would do??.

the only thing that jehovah supposedly does to help, is reaveal stuff to the 'annointed ones', and let's face it, he doesn't do a good job of that, need i explain?!?!!.

outnfree

JW72,

Jehovah is the Loving God because "while we were yet sinners, he sent his Son to die for us."

Yes, He is loving because he was willing to transfer his unique Son's life to Mary's virginal womb, and let that Son grow and mature and ransom us all by dying a very horrible and shameful death.

Can anyone imagine showing love for, say, three out of four children, by purposely sending the remaining one to a painful and ignomious death? Wouldn't the world call us loving parents, too?

No?

This may be why the mainstream Christian concept of a Trinity is more palatable to many. Because at least there, it is God Himself who decides to come down from heaven, take on humanity, and suffer willingly for humankind.

But even that scenario begs the question: If God is so loving, why didn't he just use his power to

- kill off Satan?
- kill off Adam and Eve and start over?
- not allow evil to exist in the first place?
- put an end to sorrow instead of sentencing Adam and Eve and their progeny to suffering?

to mention a very few.

These, as yours perhaps, are rhetorical questions. I am not really interested in the believers' answers that may pop up here. I need to figure this all out on my own and come to my own conclusion. (Which I have confidence I have the wherewithal to do, so no preaching, please...)

Nice post, JW72.

outnfree

9

Letter from ELDER

by open_mind in

jw
friends

i thank all of you for your responses to my posting "i need your help".

this posting goes hand in hand with that one.. i recieved this e-mail from an elder today.

it seems that his whole personality has changed over the weekend.. -since you are going to reply to my last note... i thought that i would mention something:.

outnfree

Hi, open_mind,

I think Amazing has your previous post confused with jurs'.

It is such a shame that your study conductor has apparently slipped back into rigid JW mold. I know you wanted to believe it wouldn't quite happen like this, but it IS happening.

As I suggested before (without much explanation, perhaps a bit coldly -- sorry!), find a new job or business -- F - A - S - T !!!

And I think ExpatBrit previously mentioned an attorney if there were any JW contracts involved?

Being 'too busy' will only last so long -- it will depend entirely on how many others at the KH are asking this brother "where is open_mind lately? We've missed him!"

No face to face meetings, no correspondence other than "I'll get back to you" if you wish to fade.

But kiss the friendship with this brother good-bye.

Sad, isn't it?

outnfree

40

WTS SAYS ELDERS SINS DON'T COUNT!

by Amazing in

jw
friends

sometime ago i posted a discussion on h20 about the nov. 1991 kingdom ministry school for elders / ms held at woodburn, oregon.

during that school session the co stated that elders who commit a serious sin, even a gross sin, did not have to be removed if the event took place two or three years prior, and the elder continued to be respected, giving evidence of jehovahs blessing.

the co stipulated that this only applied to elders and ms and not to regular publishers.

outnfree

Thanks, Amazing!

Does anybody else remember a Watchtower study article in the last year or two which talked about the elders -- probably as a "place of refreshment" or some such -- which also made the point that even should a publisher have evidence that an elder was guilty of wrongdoing, that publisher should

a/ ask him/herself if s/he is really certain that the wrongdoing took place? and
b/ ask him/herself if it is really up to the publisher to try to put things in motion to have the matter corrected -- with the implication that JEHOVAH will resolve it the way He wants, in His own time?

This really frosted me at the time. I remember being insulted that a publisher wasn't expected to be able to discern right from wrong!

And I remember talking to a friend of mine and bringing up pedophilia as the perfect example of why this line of reasoning was just wrong, wrong, wrong! One would want to do everything possible to make sure that an elder-pedophile was removed IMMEDIATELY as he would pose a danger to others.

Although this friend was a silentlamb herself, she thought I was overreacting.

Wonder what she'd think of this?

outnfree

13

a friend lost

by zev in

jw
friends

on thursday, the 21st, i lost a dear friend.. he was an older man, some 25 years older than me.

he was not a dub.

we became friends over 10 years ago because of a mutual hobby, that of ham radio, or amateur radio if you prefer.

outnfree

(((((Zev))))))

You certainly are a warm and caring person! Your friend was indeed lucky to have known you.

It will be tough for quite a while without him -- I had a friend with whom I spoke daily, on [i]her/i] ride home from work, until I left the Borg and lost her friendship -- but it will get easier. Somebody is right, time heals. Meanwhile, we deal with the raw feelings as best we can.

Loss is never easy. But you would not feel the loss so sharply if you had not shared a friendship together so warmly.

My sincere sympathy,

outnfree

2

All Part of Growing.......

by ISP in

jw
friends

kent made an apology to the board......so what you may think.

but my point is that we have license to say pretty much what we like here.

many of us show due restraint and avoid causing undue offence to other posters.

outnfree

Amen and A-MEN!!!

outnfree

205

HELLO? HELLO? "ALL" SIGN IN???????

by waiting in

simon did away with the sex forum - so i must take the tradional route and post under "make new friends.

" how mundane!.

fyi ---- for all of us, please take the time to write a sentence or two about yourselves, and encourage new ones to do the same.

outnfree

Welcome to Steve4 and Tracysdad!

Steve4,

20 years out and yet there's STILL a pull to 'meet and greet' others who know what being an ex-JW is all about! Amazing!

My father spent time in NZ during WWII and raved about it -- called it paradise on earth. Made me want to visit some day. Perhaps I will...

Tracysdad,

Your 'handle' shows how much you're invested in remaining a part of your son's life, and I really like that about a guy.

I'm afraid that I have to agree with Gopher. The love displayed in the Jehovah's Witness organization is conditional to the max. "Newbies" are always love-bombed. ESPECIALLY at the Memorial, but also pretty much the whole time they're potential converts. But once you're dunked, you're on your own!!! Sad but true.

--------

It struck me as coincidental that the very first professional ball game I attended was to see my Dad's beloved Yankees play in a double-header against ....
the Minnesota Twins!!!
I got to see both Mickey Mantle and Harmon Killebrew play that day (I think it was cap day at Yankee Stadium). If I recall correctly, they split the bill, with Killebrew hitting a home run to win the second game.

Ah, the boys of summer!

outnfree