Posts by Pathofthorns

107

C.O. Reports: JWs/WTS "Reach Critical Mass...

by BitterTruth in

jw
friends

jehovah's witnesses/wts have reached "critical mass" - says ex-circuit overseer.

------posting copied from h2o-----.

posted by xelder [seeker4] on july 13, 2000 at 12:00:52 {rn3hpwrs1eubi2tgjvegd9bhhxgwag}:.

Pathofthorns

Friend:

The day the Society states that its teachings hold precedent over the Bible will be the day that 99% of Jehovah’s Witnesses leave off association with the Society. I fully realize that that latter statement can be countered, but I don’t think successfully so; at least I’ve never seen it.

We all know that the Society would never state such but consider that people like you have been writing the Society for a long time proving with sound reasoning and solid arguments that the stand on blood is not Bible-based (or lacks sufficient proof to make it doctrine), that the 607 BCE date lacks solid proof, that alternative civil service should have been permitted over 15 years earlier, etc. etc. ect.

We have seen that within a relatively short period of time changes can happen to organizational policy. (ie. Jimmy Swaggart case/donation arrangement).

The fact that concerned individuals have written respectfully using such sound scriptural argmentation for change and none has been forthcoming or it has taken so many years at the suffering of so many shows that they uphold their understanding over Bible truth.

I won't go into the Walsh case, but what further evidence does one need to show that we kick out individuals who could have the true understanding, just to preserve unity until we are forced to make changes. And that is what is happening these days- forced changes, by Governments, "apostates", and thinking Witnesses.

Path

25

New Web Site About Blood Transfusion

by Friend in

i think each of you will enjoy considering the link below that contains an article titled jehovahs witnesses and the apostolic decree to "abstain from blood.

" authors are anonymous.

here is the link:.

Pathofthorns

I haven't heard anything like that. I doubt they would ever hire anyone from "outside" for matters of doctrine. They obviously have good "spin" people anyway, and they've had them for a long time.

No amount of "spinning" will do anyway. Freethinkers are being weeded out, dumbing down the flock. Any who remain "strong in the truth" will collapse from mental exaustion and breakdown. People are already putting the "truth" on the back burner and playing catch-up for lost time. Past policies like education, not planning for the future, blood, etc are already starting to come back and haunt them.

I gather most see no real way out for the organization. What made us different and what we are is what needs to be changed. And those changes have to be made due to the overwhelming evidence existing to force such changes.

Yet the price of such change will be enormous, and the results will be devestating as 6 million people (and the millions loosely associated who "still believe its the truth) have the rug pulled out from under them when they realize they are just like everyone else. They are going to die, but were never prepared to accept this simple fact of life.

The old GB members will pass off the scene, leaving the 4 new younger replacements holding the bag.

Path

8

NEW BLOOD ARTICLE-07/15/00

by Seven in

jw
friends

.

[url] http://www.guardianunlimited.co.uk/archive/article/0,4273,4040618,00.html[/url]

Pathofthorns

That article has got to hurt a bit. Of course its all lies though as its obviously written by apostates. (LOL)

Path

14

Speakin' plain English

by Zep in

jw
friends

collateral damage= we just shot the hell out of some civilians.

friendly fire= shot the hell out of some of our own.

new light= we stuffed up big time.

Pathofthorns

I've asked the question before to certain ones, and it seems to be due to the possibility of vandalism.

Some of our halls do have windows, but for most they are not in the auditorium. Seems strange that they can't put in those unbreakable, or less breakable ones. There is something about natural light which seems to make it more pleasant to learn indoors. How many schools have no windows?

Path

25

New Web Site About Blood Transfusion

by Friend in

i think each of you will enjoy considering the link below that contains an article titled jehovahs witnesses and the apostolic decree to "abstain from blood.

" authors are anonymous.

here is the link:.

Pathofthorns

That is exactly what I was thinking will happen as well. IMO the only way they may be able to pull it off is to offer a complete and honest apology, and re-think the whole "divine channel" thing.

Perhaps if they were simply a Bible Society offering guidance to people and highlighting the basic fundamentals of Christian teaching and living so as to have a genuine impact on people's lives would be best.

They will always have a solid core, as we have been taught to hate all other religions and not examine them in detail, most believe Jehovah as a separate entity from Christ, and most still want to believe in a physical paradise. It will be on these beliefs they will survive on, and what was once so radically different and controversial, which also made us so unique, will have to be discarded.

The changes will be painful as likely hundreds of thousands will leave, perhaps millions. With the passage of time, those who remain will have children which will be indoctrinated in the newly refined teachings, and these ones will carry on in the softer, more generic and more mainstream Jehovah's Witnesses.

Path

25

New Web Site About Blood Transfusion

by Friend in

i think each of you will enjoy considering the link below that contains an article titled jehovahs witnesses and the apostolic decree to "abstain from blood.

" authors are anonymous.

here is the link:.

Pathofthorns

I enjoyed the article too Friend, as well as your comments.

What disturbs me is with regard to the blood issue (as well as the 607/587 issue) is that the Society has been so dogmatically insistent on the fundamentals on these issues for so long. To bring teachings in line with the facts and truth seem to be impossible without having devestating effects on the Organization.

It seems that to hold onto these present understandings in the face of overwhelming evidence is hardly honest. Yet to make the needed changes will not be without heavy consequence either.

How it all plays out will be rather interesting. I only hope that more like Seven who may face challenges with regard to this issue will be able to make their own conscientious decisions by having all the facts available.

Path

3

New Web Site About Blood Transfusion

by Friend in

jw
friends

i think each of you will enjoy considering the link below that contains an article titled jehovahs witnesses and the apostolic decree to "abstain from blood.

" authors are anonymous.

here is the link:.

Pathofthorns

An interesting article Friend. Its almost as if someone like yourself took the time to prepare that. :)

Path

52

JW prophets or not!!

by Zep in

well they use to claim they were...of course now they dont, at least not in so many words.their very name itself however, implies that they speak for jehovah.but if its the case as they claim, that they are not his prophets & do not neccessarily speak for him then they have no right to the name "jehovah witnesses"....furthermore, if they are not prophets then how can they claim that rev11:3-4 is referring to them....pg164 of revelation..grand climax book.here it says that "my 2 witnesses shall prophesy".....but since they are not prophets then how can they prophesy....how can god cause them to prophesy?.

its all games obviously...an attempt to avoid the label "false prophet" but in the process of doing so they just end up looking even more stupid!....

Pathofthorns

Friend:

I don't believe there is any hidden agenda by the Society. Actually, I really don't know what or who the "Society" is or who or what is really running the show these days or where they are going.

While there is much published literature making brief, usually out of context mention of what was stated or done in times past, one usually gets quite a different picture when he visits older pulications, many which are not on the CD library, and many which simply aren't available to most Witnesses.

At the very least it is very safe to say that most Witnesses are quite unfamiliar with the particulars of their history, many even denying certain things having happened or being said. If I began distributing copies of what was stated by the Society 50-100 years ago, in many minds I'd be labelled an apostate for distributing such "truths". Why is our history not included in the study one undergoes before he is baptized?

At any rate, the half-facts I was mentioning were not really concerning our history anyway. As you have mentioned in the past, there is much more to be said in determining the merrits of the 587 date for Jerusalem's destruction. There is much more that can be presented to the brothers and sisters regarding alternative ways the blood doctrine could be viewed in light of the Bible.

We know that the full, or at least a larger picture exist. We know that counter-arguments from "non-approved" sources exist. However we have been taught to view such things as "spiritual pornography", being fully confident that the Society has a department researching everything for us, so there is no need to question what is printed in a Watchtower.

Path

52

JW prophets or not!!

by Zep in

well they use to claim they were...of course now they dont, at least not in so many words.their very name itself however, implies that they speak for jehovah.but if its the case as they claim, that they are not his prophets & do not neccessarily speak for him then they have no right to the name "jehovah witnesses"....furthermore, if they are not prophets then how can they claim that rev11:3-4 is referring to them....pg164 of revelation..grand climax book.here it says that "my 2 witnesses shall prophesy".....but since they are not prophets then how can they prophesy....how can god cause them to prophesy?.

its all games obviously...an attempt to avoid the label "false prophet" but in the process of doing so they just end up looking even more stupid!....

Pathofthorns

Thats a pretty good response Friend.

On that subject my only intent is to evidence more precisely the true level tolerance.

I think though you will have a tough time finding exactly what this level of tolerance is, because as we know such a level varies from congregation to congregation, branch to branch etc. It also can vary from year to year and subject to subject. This can be very confusing for the average person.

For all I know some may feel that level of tolerance is just fine.

Some people felt all sort of things (end coming in 1975 etc) but it doesn't make them right. Usually such ones have incomplete or erronious information, or haven't given much thought to the subject or have not been in a situation that such intollerance affects them.

As for your example, some things are worth dying for and some not. Who can or should best decide when that choice has been made properly? Would you want someone else making that choice for you?

I agree people should be free to die for what they believe in. Some will conscientiously refuse permitted blood fractions and that is their right to do so.

But people have the right also to live for what they believe in, and to make choices based on complete facts, not half-facts and an incomplete picture. People deserve full access to information without reprocussion so they can make an informed personal conscience decision on matters not specifically commented on in scripture.

Path

Edited by - Pathofthorns on 10 July 2000 11:7:14

52

JW prophets or not!!

by Zep in

well they use to claim they were...of course now they dont, at least not in so many words.their very name itself however, implies that they speak for jehovah.but if its the case as they claim, that they are not his prophets & do not neccessarily speak for him then they have no right to the name "jehovah witnesses"....furthermore, if they are not prophets then how can they claim that rev11:3-4 is referring to them....pg164 of revelation..grand climax book.here it says that "my 2 witnesses shall prophesy".....but since they are not prophets then how can they prophesy....how can god cause them to prophesy?.

its all games obviously...an attempt to avoid the label "false prophet" but in the process of doing so they just end up looking even more stupid!....

Pathofthorns

Friend:

I agree that the Society allows us to hold a different view, but when one cannot share and discuss new or different ideas/thoughts freely, and when one must walk as a lawyer on certain subjects, of what benefit is it to allow divergent thought when it cannot be acted upon or shared?

Here is an example. Suppose in January of this year you needed a prohibited blood fraction for your survival and you felt you could take it in good conscience. If you were unrepentent you would have been disfellowshipped (at least in many congregations) for breaking God's law on blood.

Suppose now that same fraction is now permitted in the June 15 QFR article. Of what benefit was freedom of thought in January when you could be dead by June by not having the freedom to act upon your conscience?

This example is simply to show that one does not necessarily have to spread a divergent thought, but in some cases, merely acting upon it in a life-or-death situation (and failing to repent for having done so) could lead to disfellowshipping.

Path