posted by gregstafford on wed - jun 26 - 02:38am:
http://www.channelc.org/cgi-bin/eboard30/index2.cgi?frames=yes&board=main&mode=current&message=2277
in response to amac's question i have provided some details below.
Thanks for posting this again here. I would love to see the WT's "rebuttal" to this and at least hope a few active elders are asking some serious questions based on this information.
I also have to give credit to Mike Musto who posted this info first to this board. I realize he has taken some heat under past aliases but I have to compliment him for his info as of late under the "musto" personna.
Path
i think i mentioned this some time ago but never had time to do anything about it.
i'm thinking of offering merchandise on the site for a bit of fun and also to help with the site expenses (although i don't expect it to generate a huge amount).
i think catchy logo's and phrases are the best.
I'm curious as to what sort of person would actually buy and use this stuff. I mean the last thing I'd want around my place is something with the word "Watchtower" on it. I wouldn't want to see it when I'm drinking my morning coffee - what a shitty way to start your day..lol
And isn't wearing a T-Shirt telling the world that you are a "WT Survivor" a bit of a contradiction? If you are that obsessed that you would wear something like that in public (other than outside a WT convention with a picket in your hand) you might as well have "Hopeless WT Victim" plastered on your shirt instead.
Many of these slogans are really funny and I realize that the whole concept is one of a novelty and not really one of functionality and practicality. I just wonder if people really will buy this stuff when it comes down to it or if you will be left with a bunch of unsold WT "car shammies" and "buffing rags". If you can't sell sufficient numbers of this stuff over a sustained period then and you are left with a huge inventory then you are not offsetting your costs but are adding to them.
Path
through all my years as a jw, i've always had trouble understanding the jw preoccupation with behavior modification; especially the teachings regarding ``stumbling.
'' why is it that we are expected to pander to the lowest common denominator.
i'm thinking in particular about the oft-used example that when we liberal northerners head south into the u.s. bible belt and encounter a jw who, influenced by local preguidices, abstains totally from alcohol.
It is funny that the ones who always brought up the "stumbling" thing were usually the so-called "strong" (and self-righteous) ones. Most of the "weak" ones I knew couldn't give a damn about half the stuff that was claimed to possibly "stumble" them. If anything was a stumbling block it was the self-righteous attitude of the spiritual elite.
It says something about their confidence in the flock that they are so paranoid over the stupid petty little things that might "stumble" them. I would say if anything stumbles people out of that organization it is far and away the actions and attitudes of elders.
Path
hey all,.
if anyone remembers off the top of their head about changes that the 1999 cd-rom from the wts had, vs past cd-roms and/or printed volumes from past awakes/watchtowers....please pass them on to me.. i'll be visiting a friend soon, overseas, that's a loyal jw... we've been talking a bit, and i perceive him to be open minded in that he'll listen to me to a certain extent.
as long as i can provide proof from the wts that they have changed things as their "trooth" changes, maybe he'll open up his mind a bit and realize what's going on.. he's already a bit upset with them, because right after he finished his jail term for refusing millitary service, the wts changed that policy.... cheers,.
Since he is already aware in a small yet significant way how the Society hangs those out to dry who follow their policies you might want to press a little further along those lines.
Maybe refer back to the artical where the Society changed their position on alt military service and how they stated that "some suffered a little more than others because their conscience was stricter" when in reality your friend knows he went to jail because he was not allowed to exercise his conscience without penalty.
You can then show him in other areas such as organ transplants where people lost their lives(due to their "conscience"?) and then the Society changed their mind again.
This leads easily to the inconsistent blood policy and the increasing list of permissible blood fractions while they hold to their hardline stance against needed "forbidden" components.
The same "hanging out to dry" is evident in the "generation" understanding change.
I doubt you can accomplish little more in one visit with your friend than to start him down the path of thinking and questioning. Don't overdue it but lead him in the right direction and hopefully the rest will follow in time.
Path
Edited by - Pathofthorns on 28 June 2002 11:57:39
i have just learned that there was another jw suicide in western washington (south king county) last weekend.
the man was a young adult, in good standing, married and doing well financially.
i can't reveal more, and this one didn't hit the news either.
It comes down to each individual's story and what circumstances led them to conclude that they could not go on.
I think more information has to be provided before we can assume that being a JW had anything to do with this. Considering he was in 'good standing' and seemingly doing well, it must be especially devasting for his family and the community and my heart goes out to them.
Path
thought everyone would like to hear some great news about the calgary blood case.
i was sent the following, which i've modified to protect the guilty:.
at the witnesses' request, the trial has been put over till october.
Thanks for sharing those comments Mike... Very interesting and informative. Can you state where they were originally posted?
Path
kent steinhaugh has this time made a great finale with his very honest and wholehearted explanation of his reasons to leave the watchtower observer administration.
from the deep of my heart, i do admire and respect people like him.. .
i hope all members of the board take a time to digest the subliminal, yet obvious message this great character of our era has had the courage to send to the world of those who know his work and dedication.
A much more suitable 'farewell' of sorts. Thank you and good luck.
Path
**however, from 1892 to 1927, the watch tower did set aside space for comment on the text featured in the "international sunday school lessons," which were then popular in many protestant churches.
these texts were for many years selected by f. n. peloubet, a congregational clergyman, and his assistants.
the watch tower discussed these texts from the standpoint of the bible students advanced understanding of the scriptures, free from the creeds of christendom.
Nice to see you again Frenchy . Every now and again I stop and think about how nice it was to have had this place when I needed it most and that it was what it was when it was.
(does that make any sense? lol)
Path
http://kent.steinhaug.com/forum/showthread.php?s=4482111f612323457bbe52046903bccf&threadid=603
i for one am really sad about it though.
the watchtower observer was the first xjw site i found.. i will miss you kent and thanks so much for everything you have done.. gravedancer
The title of the thread was a bit incendiary. I think if you have past/present grievances with Kent, there is a certain courtesy in recognizing that now is neither the time or place to bring them up.
Sometimes you can do the honorable thing and just shake someone's hand and sincerely wish them well.
I could be wrong but imo, this just makes for a poor send-off and is a disrespect to work done in behalf of alot of people.
Path
i was laying in bed last night thinking how lucky i am that i havent had to undergo the mental torture of attending the district convention.
then i started reminiscing about the old days and i suddenly remembered those ridiculous tickets you had to buy to pay for food.
they were those brown cheap cardboard type efforts with i think 10 tickets per sheet.
Yeah the food ticket thing was a bit funny. Maybe it made for a bit of efficiency at the food stands and those in full-time service got an alotment of free tickets.
I remember my old man and others would put unused tickets in the contribution boxes at the end of the sessions which would irritate the hell out of those in audit..lol
I think the switch to bringing/buying your food was a better way, but we had long been sold on the benefits of the old way which means the reasons they used to justify it in the first place were never valid reasons.
The last thing that pissed me off was that you were expected to bring a lunch but then take your own garbage home with you. How bad is it when you don't want to provide garbage bags? That is beyond "simplification".
Path
