Posts by Pathofthorns

61

Are we wrong to attack the Elders?

by MARTINLEYSHON in

jw
friends

i see a number of board members alluding to the elders as antagonists.

this is amoral.

there is an inference that these ones ( elders ) can think for themselves, they cannot.

Pathofthorns

I also wanted to add that imo most elders were basically good persons (so as not to lump them all in the same category).

But I also believe that while one is an elder, at some point he will face choices to do what is morally/ethically right or to be "loyal" to the "arrangement" or to side with more influential elders or to take the path of least resistance.

I don't believe there are acceptable reasons for an elder to sell out anyone or to allow a serious injustice to be perpetuated against someone in his care so that he can keep his position.

While I can excuse some of our behavior while a JW due to general ignorance, I cannot excuse behavior that is just plain due to a lack of personal integrity and love of people.

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61

Are we wrong to attack the Elders?

by MARTINLEYSHON in

jw
friends

i see a number of board members alluding to the elders as antagonists.

this is amoral.

there is an inference that these ones ( elders ) can think for themselves, they cannot.

Pathofthorns

Lets be honest and without fear of contradiction the majority of Elders are scared shitless of loosing their coveted position,

I have no respect for anyone that sells out others or fails to do "what's right" in order to keep a POSITION. These guys need to start behaving like men and RESIGN on principle when asked to do something they don't personally agree with.

I realize they are likely ignorant of many things, but many times they are following orders they don't agree with personally to KEEP A POSITION, and that is WRONG.

Many men have resigned and I think many more will do so in the future. This is leaving alot of others who have sold out alot of friendships to get and stay where they are. To be loyal to an organization over the people that make it up is just sickening.

I see no reason not to make these arrogant ones realize that they can be sued and that the Society will sell them out in the end. If that is what it takes to make them wake up and stop ruining lives, I see nothing wrong with it.

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84

WT PR Statement - silentlambs march

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

this was read and given to all media at the march.

the outrage is to great to express, who are these people?

silentlambs .

Pathofthorns

I don't believe the attacks on Cygnus are entirely fair. There is alot of talk about "changing policy" and taken at face value the stated policies don't presently seem terribly far off from a reasonable ideal.

A certain amount of reading between the lines would appear to indicate whatever policies are claimed are not necessarily followed. Many statements also appear to indicate that present policy has been in effect for a long time when in reality such comments are misleading. And no acknowledgment or acceptance of responsibility for past errors or inadequate policies is terribly frustrating.

What many of us have come to appreciate over time is very difficult to explain and to understand for others who might not have had the same bad experiences within the WT. You also have to appreciate and respect people approaching these issues with caution, balance and reason.

It is an easy thing to jump on the bandwagon and call the WT liars and child molesters. But it is more difficult sometimes to interpret the evidence and present it in a reasonable and convincing way to build a solid case against them.

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84

WT PR Statement - silentlambs march

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

this was read and given to all media at the march.

the outrage is to great to express, who are these people?

silentlambs .

Pathofthorns

The WT is very good at telling people half truths and these sorts of statements can be very incendiary especially to persons who have suffered abuse and who have experienced the opposite of what the Society claims to be their policy.

I think time will tell the true picture as more and more things that have out of necessity needed to be kept quiet are revealed. Well-worded media statements have to be considered in the context of so many abused persons who claim they were discouraged from going to the police or getting professional counselling.

"Severely censored" in the context of Vicki Bower's trial in Toronto meant delayed reporting to the authorities, loss of microphone "privileges" and private reproof of the molester. What sounds so glowing on paper is pathetic in reality.

At the end of the day all I can do is encourage patience and courageous endurance and persistance on the part of everyone affected. You have to be very proud of how far everyone involved has managed to take this and be hopeful for the future. I hope we can manage to balance the need for justice with making sure those who have suffered these terrible things can go forward no matter what happens.

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21

Guess who called Sunday morning

by Tammie in

jw
friends

some time around 7 am, my mother in law calls.

hubby answers.

we were still asleep.

Pathofthorns

Hey tammie..

I think you and your husband are good to hold your ground. Make the grandparents see exactly what THEY are giving up. Plus the fact that you allow them to see their grandchildren in your presence is entirely reasonable and especially so knowing that she is deliberately trying to take them to places you have forbidden.

But these family fights over what amounts to nonsence are really sad. I hope your parents wake up and you all can put this behind you. Children deserve to have a healthy relationship with their grandparents and as someone said earlier in the thread, life is too short.

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38

Those in a position to call Brooklyn

by hillary_step in

jw
friends

the allegations of sexual abuse against at least one child and subsequent attempts to cover over the crime made against theodore jarcacz are extremely serious.

they have of course, yet to be proved one way or the other and theo jaracz has the right of proper representation both outside and within the walls of the wt, and should be allowed to defend himself against these accusations.

many persons who have in the past been accused of 'gross sins' become victim of an investigation by elders.

Pathofthorns

All of this talk like somehow JW's are bound to follow their stated procedures and that all JW's are treated equally is plain looney and we all know it. Rules are frequently bent for prominent JW's and not all are treated equally. I understand the point attempting to be made but from the perspective of JW's the person making these allegations is a complete crackpot.

The allegations are so extreme that they will not give credence to them by even considering a JC. The reality is such allegations against such persons are dismissed immediately without consideration. The burden of proof rests entirely with this woman and if she cannot substaciate her claims then she may be forced to stop making these extremely damaging comments.

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30

Favourite Simpson's secondary character?

by crownboy in

jw
friends

the simpsons has got to be my favourite animated series of all time.

obviously, all of the main characters are pretty good (my favourite main character is homer, dohhh!

so for the simpsons fans here, who is your favourite secondary character?.

Pathofthorns

Pray for MOJO

14

Why Does U.S. Know So Much About Iraq's Weapons?

by cellomould in

jw
friends

us helped iraq develop biological and chemical arms-report (from reuters 06:22 pm et 02/12/98)

london (reuters) - the united states helped iraq develop its chemical and biological weapons programs in the 1980s while britain sold baghdad the antidote to nerve gas as late as march 1992, britain's channel four television news said thursday.

the program said it had found u.s. intelligence documents which showed 14 consignments of biological materials were exported from the united states to iraq between 1985 and 1989. these included 19 batches of anthrax bacteria and 15 batches of botulinum, the organism that causes botulism.

Pathofthorns

Intelligent foreign policy amounts to domestic safety, of course.

You say this so matter-of-factly but if only the American government understood this they would save themselves so many headaches. Then again maybe this is not all about domestic safety but merely the vehical by which they have chosen to advance their agendas for the region?

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8

AJWRB supports litigation against the WTS

by Lee Elder in

jw
friends

to learn more about this development visit:.

http://www.ajwrb.org/litigation.shtml.

lee

Pathofthorns

But, we've known for years that reform is impossible.

The gains in what fractions are now acceptable may be due in part to the persistance of AJWRB and certain elders that have brought these matters to the attention of the Society.

The changes the Society has made are examples of reform. The Society's ability to reform itself and it's having done so is manifest in that it still is in operation today.

I think Lee's comments indicate an acceptance that only limited results can be expected from attempting to change the Society from within and having exhausted these measures they will throw greater support behind litagation as a means of forcing change.

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8

AJWRB supports litigation against the WTS

by Lee Elder in

jw
friends

to learn more about this development visit:.

http://www.ajwrb.org/litigation.shtml.

lee

Pathofthorns

It is good to see this issue front and center along with child abuse since they are often so closely related.

I can't imagine anything more devastating than to see a loved one die refusing 'forbidden' treatment and then watch the Society allow what once was forbidden. It makes a mockery of everything these people lived and died for and everything they thought they were being loyal to.

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