patio34

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Posts by patio34

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  17

  WTBS Made a Huge Mistake!

  by patio34 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was tempted to write the wtbs today.

  i'm reading a loaned copy (from my younger sister, 'waiting') of ray franz's "in search of christian freedom.

  " it is a masterful point-by-point refutation of the wts doctrine.

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  patio34

  Dedalus, That is SO true "well, you don't know the whole story." That's so ironic, because THAT'S a condemnatory statement in and of itself. In a REAL court of law, the whole story is known, and people in general can know that justtice was done. Not so in secret, kangaroo-court proceedings with no defense lawyer. Just judge jury and executioner in some kind of star-chamber trial.

  Ray Franz brings out in his ISOCF that so many of the Bible judicial proceedings were public. I don't know all of the points right now.

  He even brings out instances where very elderly ones have been df'd--one man was on his deathbed! He asks, how can a dying man contaminate the congregation. Ray was making the point that the WTBS's stance that disgruntled ones should just leave quietly, and how there's no way to do that, as the shepherd are so tenacious to hunt ones down to df them.

  HadEnough, I think the above ranting in my post demonstrates I should follow your example and read a bit at a time, because of getting so enraged.

  I think why we hang together is because we have a shared trauma, akin to the Jews in Germany (granted, not as horrible) and veterans of wars. They can't let it go either. We understand each other where others can't if they haven't experienced it.

  Thanks for all your replies.

  Pat

  P. S. A very important thing to remember "Don't squat with your spurs on."
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  43

  The Rainbow as a sign to Noah

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i don't know if this has ever been brought out - i just thought of it:.

  the bible tells us that it rained for forty days and forty nights.. it stopped raining and noah & co floated around for a bit.. when they landed, noah sacrificed some of the animals (weren't they in short supply?

  ) and god promised never to bring a deluge upon then earth again.. to back this up, there was a rainbow in the sky as a sign.. now, what causes a rainbow?

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  patio34

  You did good, Francoise. Except the Sumerians, who existed before the Hebrews and their writings (Abraham was a Sumerian from Ur), had a myth about a flood, along with a paradise, a king pulled out of a river when a babe (Sargon), a serpent, a rib, etc.

  So, to many scholars, it appears that the Hebrews' many Bible tales were borrowed and edited from the Sumerians and other peoples in the area.

  That is, before they moved in and committed mass genocide.

  Pat

  "All religion dies of the same disease, that of being found out."
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  68

  JW's & alternative medicine

  by slipnslidemaster in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in one of the threads i read today, they were talking about looking into your eyeballs to diagnose cancer and the like.

  also selling herbs.. my comment and question is this: it seemed like in my congregation and the surrounding ones, alot of the sisters were into kineseology, reflexology, herbs, vitamins, color therapy, aroma therapy, etc.. alot of touchy feely hippie crap.

  while i personally agree that there needs to be more synergy with eastern and western medicines, it would appear reading the boards that alot of witnesses are into this sort of stuff.. is this your experience?

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  patio34

  SlipandSlide,

  Hi! Just trying to help get your thread up to four pages.

  I try not to have a belief or opinion about alternative medicine--or rather express my opinion. But, to each his own.

  I enjoy reading others' views though.

  I have always used allopathic meds and am here to tell about it. But, all of us are, huh? I can't discount Mulan's report of her dad, though.

  Pat

  "Some days we're the windshield and some days we're the bug."
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  19

  Englishman Unplugged.

  by Englishman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a few posters have asked me questions re my background, so, here is a potted version of my 54 years as an earthling: .

  i was born in bolton, greater manchester, in the north of england.. my father was an air-traffic controller and was transferred to london heathrow when i was quite young.

  hed flown many missions on lancaster bombers during ww2.

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  patio34

  Thanks Englishman for the biography. I was one of the ones who inquired re your background as a j-dub. Very brave of you to realize early on that you didn't believe it. I wish I had realized it much earlier.

  I had an epiphany yesterday: that I was always afraid of being 'stupid' because of lacking a college education, while my husband had one. Then, I PROVED my stupidity by becoming a JW! Oh, the irony of it all! 'Live and learn!'

  Pat

  "Never test the depth of the water with both feet . . . "
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  43

  The Rainbow as a sign to Noah

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i don't know if this has ever been brought out - i just thought of it:.

  the bible tells us that it rained for forty days and forty nights.. it stopped raining and noah & co floated around for a bit.. when they landed, noah sacrificed some of the animals (weren't they in short supply?

  ) and god promised never to bring a deluge upon then earth again.. to back this up, there was a rainbow in the sky as a sign.. now, what causes a rainbow?

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  patio34

  Simon,

  The things we read right over! The Bible seems to be full of 'em! Thanks!

  The only time I have seen a rainbow is right after a storm has let up, but the sky is still dark, but the sun peeps out and makes a rainbow in the little rain left coming down.

  Thanks!

  Pat
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  7

  Christianity and human rights

  by PerFect in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a: human rights, articel nb 1 all human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.

  .... b: christianity, dogma nb 1 those who belive in jesus christ will be saved .

  i cant get a and b in agreement.

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  patio34

  Hi PerFect, Nice to make your acquaintance. Welcome to the board and enjoy your stay.

  I agree with you that it doesn't make sense that a person could be very good and humanitarian, but yet not be 'saved' if he just couldn't believe, or if his exposure to it was negative. Or if (s)he were raised in another strong religious setting.

  Pat
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  19

  What's So Special About These One's?

  by Englishman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  im intrigued by the jws teachings re the 144,000 and i would much appreciate some input.. i mean, is their any real scriptural back-up to say that a set number of people will go from earth to heaven, or is this just a witness interpretation thing?.

  also, how does this remnant become aware that they have a calling?

  does the wtbts tend not to persecute these ones, if they hold views that would be deemed as apostate in others?.

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  patio34

  Anglise,

  Good point--about 144,000, at least dying in the Roman times. How many spaces could there be left to fill if they were ALL anointed back then, and throughout the next 1900 years, and 8,000 still today? Quite a stretch.

  Pat
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  17

  WTBS Made a Huge Mistake!

  by patio34 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was tempted to write the wtbs today.

  i'm reading a loaned copy (from my younger sister, 'waiting') of ray franz's "in search of christian freedom.

  " it is a masterful point-by-point refutation of the wts doctrine.

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  patio34

  It's good to hear from y'all about this. It was much better than writing to the Borg.

  TR and Mac, the 'light is getting brighter' now that we're free to look for it!

  Farkel, just started the disfellowshipping chapter (gr-r-r-r). And that was pathetic what they did to that elderly man--heartless.

  The chapter on blood was astounding. How could the WTBS dupe so many people into risking their lives? I just hope none of my grandchildren get put at risk over this.

  LostMyReligion, I keep reading these kinds of books because of wanting to be satisfied it's right to leave. Although I wish I could pull my 2 sons out! Need patience, huh? It's so nice to have you posting on here!

  Hopeful, I agree the books should be read in the order you said. Because the ISOCF seems to have more doctrine rebuttal and CofC has more of the internal workings. It does get one's ire up! The only problem is wanting to share it with JWs--which will lead to df'g. He has a point about that too in the chapter on df'g. How cleverly the WTS refuses to defend its policies on the basis of 'apostasy' when Jesus, Jehovah, and the early Christians did just the opposite.
  
  Francoise, thanks for the info about meeting Ray Franz. His personality certainly comes thru in the books too. It's as with evolution, those species that didn't adapt go into extinction. It seems that will be the outcome for the Borg.

  Pat
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  17

  WTBS Made a Huge Mistake!

  by patio34 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was tempted to write the wtbs today.

  i'm reading a loaned copy (from my younger sister, 'waiting') of ray franz's "in search of christian freedom.

  " it is a masterful point-by-point refutation of the wts doctrine.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  patio34

  I was tempted to write the WTBS today. I'm reading a loaned copy (from my younger sister, 'Waiting') of Ray Franz's "In Search of Christian Freedom." It is a masterful point-by-point refutation of the WTS doctrine. And who would be in a better position to do it, than an ex-GB member?

  What I was tempted to write the Borg was something like 'boy, did you make a HUGE mistake in disfellowshipping that guy!' Talk about knowing where the skeletons are hidden!
  (But I wouldn't waste the paper or stamp on a letter I know wouldn't get past the front desk and waste basket.)

  His gentle rationale and use of the Bible scriptures is so clear in demonstrating the errors the Borg have made regarding door-to-door, blood transfusions, clerical hierarchy, legalism, etc. It's 'just what the doctor ordered!' And I'm only half-way through.

  Not that I haven't been equally impressed with the writings of ones on the Net such as AlanF. But I'm still discovering every day. It's only been since March of this year that i 'left.'

  Pat

  "All religions die of the same disease--that of being found out."
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  28

  I got my nerve up, gonna try this again!

  by LostMyReligion in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i first posted to this board as "truman" about 2 months ago.

  it was a time of deep depression, confusion, fear, and paranoia for me, as i had just 3 weeks before discovered that everything i had believed for 27 years was only a pipe dream.. everyone was very welcoming, but after only a few posts, i got so afraid i had to stop.

  i was fearful of revealing too much, being somehow discovered, and of the possibility of saying the wrong thing, incurring the ire of my betters here.

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  patio34

  Dear LMR,

  WELCOME! It's so exciting to see you back! Take it from me (I've been here at the recommendation of my sister, the EMPEROR, 'Waiting,' since 3/01), it's a great place to visit and exchange ideas.

  Kudos for the board!! I just stay away from the 'rough stuff' and enjoy it immensely!

  My sister--younger one!--has been such a help to me, not only thru this, but my bout with (yuck!) cancer, raising kids, etc. As soon as I told her I was leaving meetings, she overnite mailed me a big box of books, printouts, brochures, & info about all the ex-jw matters.

  There have been so many heartwarming (I may never say 'encouraging' again!) posts on this thread--you really brought them out!

  AlanF's advice applies to so many of us. OutnFree, thank you so much for the warning about your situation. I have an avid JW son whom I don't want to force into such a position.

  Had Enough, thanks for your story. I feel for you going to the DA. I wonder how many folks are there 'against their will'?

  I'm so glad you're joining our little "coffee shop." It's quite a group. We're kind of like a group of war veterans who get together to share battle stories and remedies for our problems.

  Pat

  "All religions die from the same disease--being found out."