Phizzy

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Posts by Phizzy

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  80

  Quit Quietly now more than ever

  by gone for good in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.

  - no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.

  make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).

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  Phizzy

  I do not see the depositing of a dated, signed, witnessed Letter as wrong, or even not necessary, you may need it, if you never do, that is good.

  It is still not a fool proof way of leaving, with no further action by Elders guaranteed. They can still claim, years later, that you Disassociated yourself, quite accurately, and then you have the Announcement, and the effect upon you is the same as if you had been DF'd.

  But, who knows ? it may give you a number of options, especially one that would work even without the Letter, which is to say that if any Announcement is made, or any rumours spread, you will Sue the Elders for Defamation of Character, the threat, even if you are in fact in no position to Sue, may be enough to get them to back off.

  I know of one guy who did this, an Elder told me had done it, and said " So there was nothing we could do".
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  55

  Watchtower Sudy 12 July.the Kings of North & South (from 05/20 issue)

  by BluesBrother in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  it is a challenge next sunday for them .

  due to starting the convention programme the wt study will be a 30 minute run through ,and deals with this prophecy ... i doubt the younger ones are familiar with it at all bur oldies could debate it at length .we on the look out for the king of the north to enter "the land of decoration" (more to follow,maybe next week).

  this article makes a grand claim in par 2.

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  Phizzy

  " Back in reality, the story of the 'kings of the north and south' ends with Antiochus IV Epiphanes."

  Exactly Jeffro, I know you have made an extensive Study of The Book Daniel, and that you have made excellent observations upon the the JW Org's huge error in calculating 1914. Respect Sir !

  Daniel does make an attempt at Prophesying the death of Antiochus 1V, but he gets that wrong in detail, as he gets a number of things from History wrong, when he was supposedly writing about events contemporary to him ! Actually he was finishing his Book at around 164BCE when Antiochus 1V was actually dead, a fact that Daniel seems to be unaware of. If he was aware, he does not know the details !

  All in all his Book, as well as not being written as a Prophesy stretching Centuries in to the future, was a bit of a failure !
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  47

  Court confirms:--Severe Criticism of Jehovah's Witnesses is Justified!

  by Atlantis in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  court confirms: severe criticism of jehovah's witnesses is justified!.

  https://docdro.id/axa555i.

  petra!.

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• 

  Phizzy

  Freedom of Conscience and Thought includes Freedom FROM Religion !
• 
  55

  Watchtower Sudy 12 July.the Kings of North & South (from 05/20 issue)

  by BluesBrother in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  it is a challenge next sunday for them .

  due to starting the convention programme the wt study will be a 30 minute run through ,and deals with this prophecy ... i doubt the younger ones are familiar with it at all bur oldies could debate it at length .we on the look out for the king of the north to enter "the land of decoration" (more to follow,maybe next week).

  this article makes a grand claim in par 2.

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  Phizzy

  " Jesus made a liar."

  Or as Ray Franz put it, ( I paraphrase) " when you consider what the WT ( "Bible Students") under Rutherford was teaching in 1919, it is an insult to Jesus to say he chose them ".
• 
  23

  Scriptures they use to justify disfellowshipping

  by Lynnie in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does someone have a list of the scriptures the jw's use to justify shunning and disfellowshipping?

  i know there are only a few..

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• 

  Phizzy

  Anna-Marina said " Proper context - it helps."

  That of course, is what the JW Org never does, it takes out of what was a personal Letter to one Congregation some words, and says they apply to all. It ignores the 1st century context of the N.T. It often ignores what the surrounding verses show the Writer actually meant, and so on. They do not like "Context".

  The way to read and understand the Bible properly is to understand completely the Context, taking in to consideration the above mentioned points, and a number more.

  They do not read the Scriptures with understanding, and do, undoubtedly twist the original Writer's meaning.

  The other Scripture they love to use comes from one of the Letters of John, Chapter and verse escapes me, they love to use it in cases they label as "Apostasy", but the verses in question merely say that someone who has denied that Jesus is the Son of God counts as such, few people who leave J.W's claim that, at least in their early years of leaving. Again, misuse of Scripture.
• 
  55

  Watchtower Sudy 12 July.the Kings of North & South (from 05/20 issue)

  by BluesBrother in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  it is a challenge next sunday for them .

  due to starting the convention programme the wt study will be a 30 minute run through ,and deals with this prophecy ... i doubt the younger ones are familiar with it at all bur oldies could debate it at length .we on the look out for the king of the north to enter "the land of decoration" (more to follow,maybe next week).

  this article makes a grand claim in par 2.

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  Phizzy

  Yes, that "Disgusting Thing" the United Nations, which for many years they were an integral part of as an N.G.O.

  Strange that.

  And as an N.G.O. they promised to support all its aims, strange that isn't it ? Once this became general knowledge, because the U.K Newspaper The Guardian exposed it, they resigned as an N.G O.

  Strange that.

  When challenged about it, they said they only joined to gain access to the U.N Library.

  Strange that...... because a letter from the U.N itself, readily available on line, says they did not need to be an N.G.O to gain a Library Card.

  Strange that.
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  47

  Court confirms:--Severe Criticism of Jehovah's Witnesses is Justified!

  by Atlantis in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  court confirms: severe criticism of jehovah's witnesses is justified!.

  https://docdro.id/axa555i.

  petra!.

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• 

  Phizzy

  Google Translate provided this from the Article that TheWonderofYou posted above : "Can a religious community secure its continued existence even if there is no end of the world dated by it? The judges of the Federal Constitutional Court asked twenty years ago about Jehovah's Witnesses and their application to become a public law corporation. In its ruling of December 19, 2000, the Second Senate considered the risk for Jehovah's Witnesses to lose their followers in the event of a wrong prediction of the end of the world and thus not being able to meet the criterion of "guarantee of duration", which is important for public recognition: "As a result Disappointed members could be forced to leave, which could endanger the continued existence of the religious community. "

  Christian Geyer-Hindemith

  Christian Geyer-Hindemith

  Editor in the feature section.

  F.A.Z.

  According to the judges, the risk is calculable. As the history of this religious community shows, its membership remains unaffected by false forecasts. All in all, no shrinkage has occurred, even though these eschatologically fixed Bible researchers, grouped around the journals "The Watchtower" and "Awake!", Have failed several times."
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  47

  Court confirms:--Severe Criticism of Jehovah's Witnesses is Justified!

  by Atlantis in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  court confirms: severe criticism of jehovah's witnesses is justified!.

  https://docdro.id/axa555i.

  petra!.

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• 

  Phizzy

  As I see this now, having read the full Judgement in English Translation, this Ruling does not make it any easier for a JW to leave the Org unscathed and with Honour.

  It may make it slightly more difficult for the charge of Apostasy to be laid at your door, if you have been careful not to make statements that are definitely Apostate in nature. But, even though the Ruling clearly establishes you have the Human Right to Freedom of Thought and Conscience, the Judicial Committee are still free to institute your Disassociation by simply announcing you are " No longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses."

  Then the effect on the individual, as we know is the same as being DF'd, but the actual Ostracism following from that would be difficult to challenge in Court, as the usual Defence of the JW Org that they cannot control what JW family decide to do, it is their free choice, may possibly still stand up.

  Am I correct ? It would be possible to claim in Court that you still considered yourself a Jehovah's Witness, but would be a difficult thing to get a favourable Judgement on if you had in reality disassociated.

  The most helpful thing for any wanting to simply fade away, that comes from this Judgement, is that the Truth of all the things that the JW Org claims were defamatory, 13 in all (?), has been established, in Court, your JW friends and family cannot claim they are not true, even less can they claim that they are " Apostate lies". So, the Judgement is helpful.
• 
  47

  Court confirms:--Severe Criticism of Jehovah's Witnesses is Justified!

  by Atlantis in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  court confirms: severe criticism of jehovah's witnesses is justified!.

  https://docdro.id/axa555i.

  petra!.

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  3. 
• 

  Phizzy

  " I wish this press release / article could be spread around the world and taken up by other media outlets."

  The more of us that do this the better, it will show there is huge Public Interest.

  Send to Agencies like Reuters, and to the Religious Affairs staff at popular and reputable newspapers, it may go against the grain to deal with The Daily Rag or whatever, but that is more likely to be read by JW's, the more Reputable papers are likely to be read by professionals. Get ACTIVE Folks, on Social media too !

  When writing to such places, attach the Media Release Link, or better still the PDF, in the first Post on this Thread.
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  23

  Scriptures they use to justify disfellowshipping

  by Lynnie in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does someone have a list of the scriptures the jw's use to justify shunning and disfellowshipping?

  i know there are only a few..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Phizzy

  " I don't believe that most governments are sufficiently aware that a JW cannot change churches without losing their family. I think the Russians understand it."

  Have a look at the Thread from Atlantis/Petra on the latest Court Ruling in Switzerland ,It is huge ! and will spread to Germany and Austria, and then ,who knows where, read the Thread, it is exciting !