Posts by Phizzy

6

No questions tolerated. Three self-appointed judges announce death sentence for crime.

by still wondering in

we sent this letter to all the elders after they decided that we deserved to die for asking questions that they either could not answer, despite their declared extensive knowledge of the scriptures, or else were too embarrassed to admit the answers.

needless to say we never received a reply or heard from them again.

i post this in the hope it may help others to come to terms with their situation.. “some months ago manny visited us.

Phizzy

Very accurate and timely warning Lets Think, they are damn sneaky with it too. I was 'phoned by one Elder ostensibly, I was not in, but the Ansafone system picked up, and I heard Elder 1 introduce just himself, and then another Elders voice , that I recognised , said " Ah, not in is he ?" . They were engaged upon trying to prove that I was an Apostate, had I been in, and picked up, I would have been under the impression I was talking only to Elder 1, but no, Elder 2 was there, listening in, to provide the " 2nd Witness". Bastards.

This was some time after I had actually left, and as the letter in the O.P says, where is the love ? I had left Cold Turkey, and all I ever got was two attempts, by the same two Elders actually, to get me on a charge of Apostasy. No real attempt to bring the Lost Sheep back to the Fold.

22

Thoughts on Sunning and blood Doctrines.

by Phizzy in

i have a couple of thoughts on the blood and shunning doctrines, both of which have been covered well before.

here, and on j.w facts.com and elsewhere.. but i would like to point out the following, the only scriptures they can use in reality for their blood doctrine are the verses from acts chapter 15. o.t verse are really out of the question, and dishonest to use on their part, as they do not follow most of the injunctions in there!.

the context of acts 15 is a council of the apostles and others in the jerusalem congregation, to decide what they should ask of gentile christians in the way of behaviours and practices etc, as jewish christians were demanding they comply with the mosaic law, or were, at the very least offended if they did not.

Phizzy

I have a couple of thoughts on the blood and Shunning Doctrines, both of which have been covered well before. here, and on J.W facts.com and elsewhere.

But I would like to point out the following, the only Scriptures they can use in reality for their Blood Doctrine are the verses from Acts Chapter 15. O.T verse are really out of the question, and dishonest to use on their part, as they do not follow most of the injunctions in there!

The context of Acts 15 is a Council of The Apostles and others in the Jerusalem Congregation, to decide what they should ask of Gentile Christians in the way of behaviours and practices etc, as Jewish Christians were demanding they comply with the Mosaic Law, or were, at the very least offended if they did not. When they get to the matter of the use of Blood, it is purely on the matter of EATING Blood ! A Transfusion of Blood is NOT eating it ! You can administer as many transfusions as you like to a person, and if you give them no sustenance, they will starve to death. Context is everything, to read more in to these verses is a blatant, and in fact, murderous Twisting of Scripture.

On the matter of Shunning, DFing, DAing, and actual Shunning, again the context of the Scriptures they use, and indeed, some of the instructions therein, do not say what the J.W org says, or do, they Twist these verses too.

To impose beliefs and actions upon their members in this way, is both dishonest and immoral. It is also murderous, many deaths from the Blood thing, including many children, and a fearful number of suicides and broken people from the Shunning.

It is also, to impose these things in this way, an Abuse of the Legal Human Rights of the victims, as shown by the recent Court judgement in a Swiss Court.

15

The Celestial Chariot seems to have a Flat Tyre

by Slidin Fast in

you of course remember the fabulous chariot charging about, eyes everywhere, wheels within wheels.

(elon musk be afraid).

yes, able to change direction instantly, react to any situation.

Phizzy

" Yes, Jehovah’s organization, like the almighty Sovereign in control of it, is supremely adaptable, responsive to the ever-changing situations and needs it must address." From the quote in the O.P.

This is a prime example of how the org. very like many Politicians, likes to rewrite History.

If you look at all the actions they have taken over the last 150 years or so, they have always been reactive, not proactive. The Chariot has always turned up late, often very late.

If the Oniscient far-seeing Almighty god were guiding them, you would think they would always be ahead of the game, but not once, in my memory were they ever ahead.

Bluse mentions the action they took over Corona virus, was it really on time even ? it was much like the actions of the U.K Government, Too Little, Too late.

80

Quit Quietly now more than ever

by gone for good in

the amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.

- no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.

make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).

Phizzy

Thanks GFG, I was confused, not about the original idea, as outlined again in your Posts above, but confused about if someone wanted to use the Letter to make sure, if they were merely in fact secretly disassociating, to make sure no Announcement to that effect was made at any point in the future, so that they were fully free to associate with family and friends who were JW's, could the Letter be used, in conjunction with the Law, to achieve this ?

I think probably not, if the JW's wish to Announce it, then that is what will happen, no Law could easily be used to stop that.

But I think what I missed mainly, and you have made plainer, is that if The Letter is done, and nobody else, apart from the trusted person assigned to care for it, knows about it, then in reality you ARE free ! That is a wonderful feeling for your mental health, and feeling of self worth.

In my situation, not DA'd, there is always that feeling of having to "look over your shoulder" , careful what you say and do in the sight or hearing of J.W's. Once the letter is done, stuff 'em ! do and say what you like !

It may still work out that if you are threatened with DAing, then production of The Letter may stop them doing anything further, they may well think "What's the point?", but it depends upon circumstances, particularly what provoked in the "loving" Elders the desire to take action against you.

Another thought, if at some time a family member or members decided, without the Elders being involved, to have no association with you, if you showed them The Letter, what Scriptural reason (real one, not just interpretation) could they use for such action ? "Quit mixing with a Brother that..." or whatever it says won't work, you are not a spiritual brother or sister, not a Jehovah's Witness, such unilateral action by them would have little Scriptural basis in reality.

80

Quit Quietly now more than ever

by gone for good in

the amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.

- no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.

make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).

Phizzy

I think upon further reflection, and further research prompted by excellent points made in Posts above, my thanks to TD and others, that what I now refer to as "The Letter" LOL, has to be relied upon only as a Threat, one that in actual fact you would be ill advised to carry out by actually going to Court, at least here in the U.K.

Of course, you must assert to any Legal person signing or Witnessing it, whatever, that the threat is real, see Post above, or they will not agree to notarise it or sign it. As in reality you will not use it in Court, you could get it Witnessed by two people, not related to you, and it would still look good, and not cost you.

The Defamation of Character thing would depend for success on a Court interpreting that damage to your reputation is more important than the Defence of Truth, which I doubt.

I can see a problem too under the Human Rights Act 1998 for U.K Residents, this is a very arcane point, but one you may have to fight to establish in Court, and again, the Court may not see things your way. I will not spell it out here, as the JW Legal Attack Dogs may not have spotted it.

Again I stress, The Letter may deter Elders, for fear they will personally be Sued, but to actually go to Court , and lose, would do none of us any favours, and cost a huge amount.

80

Quit Quietly now more than ever

by gone for good in

the amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.

- no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.

make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).

Phizzy

Sorry T.D, and others, I did not really make that bit clear.

Under U.K Law and no doubt in the USA and other Countries, it would make it plain that you would Sue for Defamation of Character, if they are merely declaring you, in an Announcement, as DA'd.

The other aspect is the U.K's Human Rights Act, which they would be in breach of for the same reasons that are mentioned in the Swiss case, but this is U.K law, so one would not have to fight anything in the European Courts. This of course would be a different Legal battle from the Defamation case, but still a strong case can be made. I am confident the Threat of both Legal Actions would be sufficient to get the Elders to back off. In both Cases they would have to mount a Defence, what on earth are they going to say ?

As discussed above, someone facing a Judicial Committee, which is Ecclesiastical, would be in a different, and harder, situation.

80

Quit Quietly now more than ever

by gone for good in

the amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.

- no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.

make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).

Phizzy

"I'm not sure how the letter you guys are talking about would not be construed as a formal disassociation in and of itself."

This is the danger, but the "Letter" prevents them from taking the Action of Announcing you as "No longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses", hopefully, as long as you threaten Legal Action if they do so.

Their Committee formed to decide if you have Disassociated yourself, the Elders Book says, is NOT "Ecclesiastical" , so how can they take any action against a proven non member, by a Committee with no Ecclesiastical Authority ?

They have missed the boat, yes, you did in fact disassociate yourself at the Date of the letter, but the time is gone, they cannot Defame the name of a person who is now a mere member of the Public and hope to get away with it.

The same would apply, if you have the letter, to an Ecclesiastical Judicial Committee, but if you committed a "Sin" as defined by them BEFORE the Date of the Letter, while still a member, you may be in trouble, but it may still help, so again Good Luck everybody !

It occurs to me also that the Org itself is unlikely to support the Elders involved, or even the Congregation, in a financial way, they will give advice, over the 'phone, once your Letter is revealed to them, to leave well alone, if they have a modicum of sense. If the Elders then go ahead, they are on their own.

47

Court confirms:--Severe Criticism of Jehovah's Witnesses is Justified!

by Atlantis in

jw
friends

court confirms: severe criticism of jehovah's witnesses is justified!.

https://docdro.id/axa555i.

petra!.

Phizzy

Vid, in years to come they won't be able to Sue for Defamation, they will not have a shred of Good Character left in the mind of the Public, and the Courts, once all the Child Abuse stuff comes out fully, and these Abuses of the Human Rights of members too.

13

Phone Reverse Witnessing

by Vanderhoven7 in

i think this gal is incredible.

.

https://youtu.be/pbms453asdo.

Phizzy

I couldn't listen to the blather of that J.W beyond about 4 mins. He was typical of today's JW's just ignorant, of the Bible, of their own Religion and Beliefs, and of anything approaching Scholarship.

Back in the day, myself, and another guy I can think of from my old Congregation, would have had a polite and intelligent conversation with her, and fought our corner fairly well, not that we could have answered everything to this educated and clever lady's satisfaction no doubt!

The JW's of today are in the main pathetic, they can only quote the bullshit they have been fed, are very ignorant and uneducated, and retreat in any way they can, "Our Web Site.... " That doesn't work, so, " Sorry I have to go..."

Anyway, a seed is always planted when something like this is done, a Seed of Doubt and Cognitive Dissonance, who knows when it will grow, sprout and flourish ?

80

Quit Quietly now more than ever

by gone for good in

the amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.

- no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.

make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).

Phizzy

Just to reiterate what I Posted above, if you are threatened with Disassociation , then this move by the Congregation is NOT Ecclesiastical.

They make that plain in the Elders Book, therefore, in this situation, a Notarised letter, or whatever it may be called in your Country, that shows you left entirely a while before any action by the Elders or Congregation, is a great tool.

You can then claim that your Human Rights, to Freedom of Thought, Conscience and Religion are being breached, also your Human Right to a Family life. Personally I would threaten to Sue any Elders, and the Congregation involved, if any Announcement were made about me, or any rumours circulated. I would claim such action is Defamation of Character.

Just a word of caution, if you threaten Legal Action, you must intend to go through with it, it is illegal to threaten with no intention of carrying out the Threat here in the U.K.

Again, Good Luck to all in this situation !