Posts by Phizzy

20

Why did Paul call Jesus, “the firstborn from the dead”?

by Doug Mason in

"jesus christ was resurrected on nisan 16, 33 c.e., the day when the jewish high priest offered up the firstfruits of the barley harvest.

this fits in accurately with jesus' being the "firstfruits" in the resurrection of the human dead.

(1 cor.

Phizzy

Jan, if we cannot know when Sin first occurred and how, how can any religion claim we are " all sinners" and " born in sin" ?? I think both of those statements are WRONG. But then, I am not a Bible believer, I would very much like someone with real Bible knowledge, not a JW or other Bible literalist, explain from Scripture, as you say, the " mechanics" of it. Obviously Paul's writings don't count, he had his own ideas on Sin and whence it came, but they make no sense if the Adam and Eve story is just a metaphor, as it surely is.

If there is no " Sin" then Jesus died for what ?

And if like the Apostle Paul, you believe Jesus was resurrected to life in Heaven, of what significance is this ?

12

What day off the Week?

by BereanThinker7 in

does anybody know if the borg has ever done any articles on what day of the week they think jesus died?

i know most denominations think it was friday and i have also heard somewhat sensible arguments that it could be wednesday.

not that it matters weather one in a believer or not even.

Phizzy

Personally, I do not doubt the existence of Jesus as a Historical Figure. But the Gospels and later writings have to be taken for what they are, not what we want them to be.

Yes, they may, possibly, record some of his words, with probably doubtful accuracy, but certainly a lot of the deeds he is supposed to have done, and events around his death, all smack of Fiction.

There is a lot more about the Gospels that mean they were never written as Histories or verbatim reports of conversations etc, but were written to bolster the nascent Jesus Movement. Each Gospel writer has an agenda, that colours his writing.

4

The importance of being Satan or the Devil

by Etude in

while the word "satan" appears in many translations of the old and new testament, it is much more common in the n.t., with only a few mentions in the o.t.

the word "devil" seems almost exclusively used in the n.t., at least in the few versions i checked.

this may have something to do with the word origin, satan v devil.

Phizzy

There was a thread on here about the Zoroastrian connection to the construction of the Bible as we know it. I think you are very correct with your view of the evolution of the concept of a God being " Good" and the Devil being " Evil".

The obviously early sources used in the O.T by the compilers have no concept of Satan as 100% Evil, it is only the stuff put in, or written after the Return from Babylon that contains it. "Job" of course is early, but the figure questioning god in this fable is obviously not thought of as actually existing as a "being". It is a long Metaphor, for teaching purposes, not a Book about the Spirit world to be taken literally.

There are Scholarly Papers available on-line that deal with the influence of Zoroastrianism on Jewish Theology, the Thread I mentioned I think has links to one or maybe two. Was the thread by Poster " How The Bible Was Created" ?? do a search, good luck ! The influence is undeniable, and of course is reflected in the Theology developed by Christian writers in the N.T, and later.

5

Controversy Early Day's Watchtower

by vienne in

some of you may be interested in this: https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/2021/03/the-watch-tower-and-koreshan-unity.html.

Phizzy

Thank you vienne, very interesting stuff, it shows how those Religious movements in the late 1900's were able to start, and grow in some measure, quite easily.

A charismatic man with a different view on what the Bible is about usually heads them , though there were similar women, most fizzled out eventually, but 7th Day Adventists, Latter Day Saints, Christian Science, Russell's W.T etc, all survived.

A good business plan was needed to survive, it would seem.

It is amazing how long people stuck to such movements, not only because of the advances in Scientific knowledge, but also the advancing Biblical Scholarship which from the 19th Century gradually became much more sophisticated and indeed Scientific in approach, and showed the Bible gradually to be more and more questionable.

I presume the same techniques were used as those used by the JW org and the Mormons , SDA's etc. that of persuading the adherents that they alone had the "Truth" and counter messages were to be ignored.

Fascinating stuff ! Thank you for your work !!

10

Welcome to the UK, where sharing a meme can get you arrested

by LoveUniHateExams in

er, yes, i'm not kidding.

if you share anything deemed 'grossly offensive' online you will be standing in a court before a judge if someone is offended, wets their pants, and complains.. some policeman in devon shared a meme of george floyd (not particularly nice, but illegal?!

) in a whatsapp message to his mates, some of whom were coppers, some not.. and someone complained and he's been arrested.. first: yes, george floyd memes are highly likely to offend at least some people.

Phizzy

Thanks Stan, maybe not if the person I was talking about decided to become " offended"!

Certainly now on Facebook you have to be careful to not alert the Algorithm by actually writing the word "cunt" for example, but you can freely write it thus : " C**T" and not end up in Facebook prison for a few days.

But yea, I'll stick with knob and bell-end if I feel they are strong enough ! Arsehole seems to get through O.K on FB by the way.

What is more worrying is the actual suppression of Truth because we may not dare to say something about a person that really needs to be said !

12

What day off the Week?

by BereanThinker7 in

does anybody know if the borg has ever done any articles on what day of the week they think jesus died?

i know most denominations think it was friday and i have also heard somewhat sensible arguments that it could be wednesday.

not that it matters weather one in a believer or not even.

Phizzy

The problem the Borg have to explain is that the Gospels contradict each other on the day and time of Jesus death. This is obviously a problem for other denominations too, and I have seen many Mental Gymnastics involved in trying to resolve it.

What Bible literalists do not acknowledge is that the Gospel writers, in common with nearly all other Bible writers, were not writing literal history or telling of events they necessarily believed happened. They wrote each with his own Agenda, so if that agenda demanded that Jesus died on a different day, or at a different hour to that of other Gospel writers it mattered not .

I cannot remember any Article by the JW Org that deals with this. If they did, they too would have to have some pretty fantastic Mental Gymnastics in play.

5

Speaks for Itself.

by BereanThinker7 in

[9-15-95 wt- ‘the golden calf’ and the people said: “all that jehovah has spoken we are willing to do and be obedient.”—exodus 24:7. nevertheless, the israelites soon sinned against god.

they were still encamped at the foot of mount sinai.

moses had been on the mountain many days, receiving further instruction from god, and the people pressured moses’ brother, aaron, to make a god for them.

Phizzy

That Image above is without doubt the JW's very own Golden Calf.

5

Speaks for Itself.

by BereanThinker7 in

[9-15-95 wt- ‘the golden calf’ and the people said: “all that jehovah has spoken we are willing to do and be obedient.”—exodus 24:7. nevertheless, the israelites soon sinned against god.

they were still encamped at the foot of mount sinai.

moses had been on the mountain many days, receiving further instruction from god, and the people pressured moses’ brother, aaron, to make a god for them.

Phizzy

Image result for Imagej.org. Size: 201 x 110. Source: www.logolynx.com

66

Watchtower fined in Belgium

by Vanderhoven7 in

jehovah's witnesses in belgium have to pay €12k fine for shunning policy.

news.

you have probably heard of the trial going on in belgium about the shunning policy of jws.

Phizzy

" A Voluntary Association" in the bald interpretation of what they are yes. But the whole Court Case is about the dreadful Shunning that occurs when a person of any age decides to leave.

This is a serious issue, it has resulted in a large number committing suicide, it is no joke, nor to be taken lightly. It also is against the Human Rights of the person. The Right to a Family Life for one.

6

I was looking at getting a set of the 1989 BV but not sure if it has what I want Help please

by mickbobcat in

so i am looking for the watchtower that has the part about within our 20th century armageddon will come.

but i know they changed it on some bv.

i have an offer to buy one on line but not sure what page i need them to take a picture of to let me see if its the changed version to in our time.

Phizzy

I had in my possession the changed Bound Volume, certainly here in the U.K no B.V contained the original. I also still have the original mag, I think, but cannot get at it at present, I will let you know if I have got it.

I tried to wake up one guy when I first left, by showing him both versions, he said he could see nothing wrong with them changing it !! My jaw dropped open, and I gave up with him after that. But be prepared for that reaction from some JW's !