So much is wrong with Sea Breeze's Post just above that I will have to return when I have time to answer all of it. The 12 points at the end are only vaguely correct, and much of what they say is disputed by Scholars, not agreed broadly at all.
Posts by Phizzy
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18Did Jesus lie about his generation?
by Anony Mous inwe all know the scripture where jesus says 'this generation will by no means pass away before the end will come'.
the jw interpret this as the destruction of the jewish state in jerusalem by the romans and the dispersal of the jewish people.
however, while researching the history of judea, i come across various facts about the region.. so jesus died about 30ce and his disciples were likewise well in their thirties or older, the 'generation' by definition would've lasted until ~50ce (the time during which children are born and raised to have children of their own).
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If not the WT/JW relgion where else are 'we' to go? Why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism?
by Disillusioned JW insometimes jws wonder if the wt/jw is not the truth, 'then where else are we to go?
' i say 'why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism and why not a secular philosophy which teaches a way of life?
' what do you folks say?.
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Phizzy
An interesting Thread, and some thoughts new to me, and some sources of info , Thanks Dissy!
An analogy I thought of to answer the original "But where shall we go to ? " is the following, if you learned that the water you were drinking was badly polluted, where would you go to ?".
I think this could spark valuable discussion with a JW, they have tacitly acknowledged that their "source" is somewhat polluted by their question. We can show them how to determine if a source is unpolluted.
They have to use the method of finding Evidence and Facts for what they are about to trust is unpolluted truth, Evidence and Facts that will withstand any scrutiny. Depending upon their ability, we may have to show them how to do that, even some "Fact Checking" Sites are polluted, what appear to be valid Academic Documents and Research are not, and many arguments presented by "Believers" are specious etc etc.
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JW.org move to media
by Gorb inwith the built of new jw.org media studio's we can predict the future of the jw religion.. because we are living in an age of digital media, what will be the effect of this all?.
will the religion generate a new population?
we know video media is a strong marketing tool.. like to hear your thoughts.. gorby .
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Phizzy
When I was young I asked a C.O "Why doesn't the Org do programmes for Television?" the reply I got was " because no matter how good the programme, a better one comes along and people then forget our message, it is better to speak to people person to person".
I think he must have been forearmed to answer this question, because shortly after , if memory serves, the Org had something similar in Print.
But the argument in that answer still stands I think. Their Videos etc are not in fact good enough to compare with others, but they may make some that just about are, but then if even mildly successful, they will be copied and improved upon by commercial interests that are non-JW, and become redundant.
Also if someone was moved to think about maybe joining the JW's, the hoops they would have to go through to get someone to call on them would be off-putting to most, go to a very Culty Web Site and request a Bible Study ? how many will actually do that ?
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178
Interesting Find with Chronology
by Kelley959 ini hope this is in the right area.
i've been studying the 2520 days/years 607/587/586 debacle.
for a while now i have felt 1914 was wrong.
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Phizzy
But the Land was FAR from desolate, there is evidence that groups lived in the land all through the time the of the Babylonian Exile. To live there, they had to Farm to support themselves, hardly "desolate".
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18
Did Jesus lie about his generation?
by Anony Mous inwe all know the scripture where jesus says 'this generation will by no means pass away before the end will come'.
the jw interpret this as the destruction of the jewish state in jerusalem by the romans and the dispersal of the jewish people.
however, while researching the history of judea, i come across various facts about the region.. so jesus died about 30ce and his disciples were likewise well in their thirties or older, the 'generation' by definition would've lasted until ~50ce (the time during which children are born and raised to have children of their own).
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Phizzy
As has been stated, we know the Gospel accounts are very late, so all we can say for sure is that these words of Jesus were put in to his mouth by the writers of the Gospels, which are works of Fiction.
It is interesting that later N.T Bible Books were written to explain away the fact that this "prophecy" failed.
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10
The State of the Labour Party
by LoveUniHateExams inso, we've recently had local elections across the uk on may 6.. mayoral elections, elections for councillors, and the hartlepool by-election.. labour did pretty well in wales, the snp did well in scotland, and the conservatives killed it in england.. hartlepool, a city that's been labour for 50 years, voted in the tory candidate.
hartlepool voted for brexit in 2016 (70%) and the labour leader, keir starmer, thought it was wise to offer up a labour candidate who is a kent-born remainer.
labour has seriously lost touch with its voter base, that base being traditional working class people.. it is now a party for students, social activists and the perpetually-offended, and trendy self-hating middle class people.. labour will continue to get its ass handed to it in elections until it actually starts listening to ordinary people, the voters.. and ordinary people aren't interested in woke nonsense such as preferred pronouns or taking the knee.. there has been much labour naval-gazing recently following the elections but i'd be surprised if anything is learned.
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Phizzy
What does a hard left Corbynite stand for, and what a trendy metropolitan supporter of Starmer please ?
And is there a group in the middle of these ?
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7
The Fly (1986) - David Cronenberg's masterpiece
by LoveUniHateExams ini first saw this film when i was 11. i'm not gonna lie, the prosthetic make up on jeff goldblum used when he was becoming a fly/man mashup kinda scared me.. it's a film that i own and have seen many times.
out of all the cronenberg films i've seen, this one definitely stands out for me.
i think it's cronenberg's masterpiece.. the plot is as follows: scientist seth brundle is trying to make teleportation possible, and meets a female journalist (ronnie quaife) who is keen to get the scoop.
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Phizzy
Just as a bit of fun, see the earlier version with Vincent Price, it is quite a laugh , especially at the end !
I love the Cronenberg version, very well done, proper entertainment, and well acted to the point that the viewer is really emotionally involved.
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178
Interesting Find with Chronology
by Kelley959 ini hope this is in the right area.
i've been studying the 2520 days/years 607/587/586 debacle.
for a while now i have felt 1914 was wrong.
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Phizzy
Of course 607BCE is wrong. The whole 2520 years thing is TOTAL NONSENSE too of course. The "seven times" in Daniel 4 were fulfilled, came to an end, in that Chapter !
You have to use some incredible mental gymnastics verging on the insane to extrapolate anything further.
The Book of Daniel is basically a bit of a scam anyway, it pretends to have been written in the 6th Century B.C.E but was written toward the middle of the 2nd Century B.C.E being completed in 164BCE, so even the Seven Times were not a Prophecy ! they were talking about an event from Centuries before the writer's time and work.
His little book is a thinly veiled attack on Antiochus Epiphanes 1V, the writer has an attempt to predict the death of nasty old Antiochus, being unaware that it had already occurred when he wrote, and that he got the details wrong.
A failure as far as prediction and prophecy goes, but maybe it did its job Politically at the time ??
This is a good little thing to remember : No 607 = No 1914 = Today's Governing Body are self appointed Charlatans.
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How to hug: a BBC guide
by LoveUniHateExams inthere is now a guide from the bbc on how to hug, seeing as the uk government has now officially given us permission to indulge in this normal human behaviour.. yep.. a guide on how to hug.. not creepy, weird or orwellian at all, lol.. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9587759/bbc-slammed-creepy-weird-guide-safer-hugging-pandemic.html.
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Phizzy
Stan, you are almost as naughty as me ! that is FUNNY !!
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14
Do you still debate with JWs?
by punkofnice ini was talking to an ex-jw.
not been out as long as i have.. cut a long story short, i came to realise that i can no longer be bothered to debate jws if (on the rare occasion), i have encountered them.. i think that because i am somewhere circling a nihilistic atheist it seems pointless.
i just don't have the energy because i rarely even think about jw related garbage.
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Phizzy
I never used to approach them at Carts and things before Covid, and of course they are told by the Cong. not to call on me, so I would not get the chance to discuss things in person.
Even on-line, I now leave it to others, I cannot be arsed. I found in the early days of leaving when I did debate with them , that the only effective way was to get them to tell ME what they found doubtful about the Org. then I would stick to talking about that one aspect, and direct them to JWFacts or similar. Probably a waste of time doing that I reckon.
My thinking now is that if anyone is determined and blinded enough to stay in, I will not be able to help them. I have offered help and encouragement to a number who upon waking up have asked me for advice, which was a pleasure, I know how valuable it was for me when I first left to get good advice.
Good to hear from you Punkie ! Keep on Rockin' !!