Posts by Phizzy

8

Help needed

by NewLight in

jw
friends

i’ve been visiting this site for quite a long time, although i rarely posted.

i would like to thank simon and all the participants, for the valuable information and support that is available here, for anyone searching about the jw organization.. just a brief introduction of myself: i live in europe (english is not my native language, so please bear with any mistakes i make).

i was born in a jw family and i’m still in the organization, but i’ve been “on the fence” about leaving the organization for quite a long time.

Phizzy

Hi New Light !

I was born in, in for decades, decided to fade, walked out of the K.H one day shortly after that decision, and then decided I could never go back, not even for a slow fade, so, I left "Cold Turkey" as they say when you just give up drugs.

I did not know at that point what would happen, would my wife stay "in" ? would my JW family shun me ? would I lose all my JW friends, people I had grown up with, and seen them marry and have kids etc ?

My wife agreed never to go back too ! Phew ! my JW family only shun me in the mildest way. One of the family told us a while ago : "We still love you, you know" . Sweet.

I did lose all my JW friends, they decided I was dangerous to know, that I would "ruin their faith" if they spoke to me.

I had some good friends who were never J.W's so hooked up with them more, and that has been wonderful, I am now closer to them than I ever was in reality to JW "friends", these "worldly" friends really care for us, do things for us, out of the ordinary things, they offer ! they love without conditions. Most "worldly" people are great !

All I can hope is that your exit is as easy, you must decide how to do it, fade or just stop. Do whatever is best for you. Do your homework, and get rid of all J.W false teachings, and the fear of the false idea of Armageddon etc.

Good Luck, all the best for the future !

28

An interesting Observation of some Bibles

by Blotty in

first of all, hi, i go by blotty on this website :) i am someone who has a passion for the bible and like to get a as balanced view as i can from the trinitarian and the jw (or unitarian) side - even though i come off as leaning towards one or the other at times, in my opinion they both have merits in certain cases..if this is in the wrong section i apologise - this is just something i found interesting.iv seen online a lot that say the watchtower and tract society "invented" the link between proverbs 8:22 - 30 and jesus (the word).

yet interestingly some "mainstream" "trinitarian- aimed" translations are cross referencing the following:source:https://www.biblegateway.comprov 8:22 cr rev 3:14niv, gnt,esv, nasb, nasb1995, nasbre, cevprov 8:30 cr john 1:1,2 esv nasbprov 8:30 cr john 1:3esvnasb1995nasb(this list is by no means complete)if this is simply wisdom, why is it referenced with jesus (or the word)?.

Phizzy

In reality trying to marry Figures, Motifs, Poetic metaphors and Messianic statements in the Hebrew Scriptures to an itinerant preacher from Nazareth is a nonsense invented by those Jewish Christians as they built up the Jesus Myth.

No writer in the Hebrew Scriptures could have had foreknowledge of Jesus of Nazareth.

What interests me more than the links made by N.T writers is the origin of things in the Hebrew Scriptures. Leading Scholars in near eastern texts and Religions such as John Day and Mark.S.Smith,suggest that the figure of "Wisdom" draws on earlier older motifs pertaining to the goddess Asherah, consort to El in Canaanite religion, and, as is now thought, consort to Yahweh in pre-Babylonian Exile Israelite religion. So Wisdom was a real person, not just a metaphor, she was the Goddess Asherah.

30

Opinions on the Divine name in the New Testament? + an interesting question

by Blotty in

i am genuinely curious and mainly posting this for research purposes, i do not have enough knowledge on either of these subjects to debate them in any useful manner.. (this information is as far as i am aware and may be incorrect in places)as most know the nwt is known for placing a form of the divine name in the nt (new testament) - while i agree the evidence is significantly weak for it too appear in the nt, a few things must be considered - (from my limited research)rev references the name twice (3:12, 14:1)early copies of the lxx contain the divine name (likely the versions that the nt writers copied?

stafford has a couple of videos on this subject)it was emphasized over and over the name [divine name, which ever form you prefer] would be "known" (other words used aswell) forever - if this is true, why then go against your own message in some cases and replace it with a surrogate?some also claim the nwt is dishonest for not translating some occurrences of "lord" as the divine name - common ones i notice are: phil 2:10-11, 1pe 3:14-15, heb 1:10yet these all use "lord" as a title not a proper noun, seems to be staunch trinitarians who make this claim most oftenscholar qualifications:why does a scholars qualification's matter?

sounds dumb i know.

Phizzy

The thorny question of the Divine name as derived from YHWH, being in the New Testament has been debated long and hard on here, and throughout the Academic world where Scholars have an interest in the matter.

We cannot know what was in the Autograph Copies of the N.T Gospels, letters and Writings, because we have no manuscripts even close in time to the original autographs.

J.W Org claims to stick closely to MS evidence, favouring the oldest available as being more accurate, which is in itself debatable, but whatever, they are therefore being disingenuous in inserting "Jehovah" where they cannot find it in N.T manuscripts that we have, i.e nowhere. They have NO manuscript support for what they have done.

I am aware of all the arguments in support of the view, a mere opinion, that the divine name in some form did appear in the Autograph copies of the N.T. I have no firm conclusion either way, but either you follow the sensible method of only including in your Bible what you actually find in the extant MS, or you produce an Amplified Paraphrase version, based upon your own Theology and Christology, which is what the NWT is.

14

DUBTOWN has been resurrected!!

by BoogerMan in

something to cheer about, after the jw cult's failure to silence kevin mcfree.

closed captions/subtitles are facilitated.

enjoy.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqdxo1v8ilm&t=481s.

Phizzy

Really funny, spot on observations, but even after all these years still triggering for me, I got that sinking feeling in the gut, that I used to get even going anywhere near a Kingdom Hall when I first left.

Just hearing the actual J.W Mind Control Speak is a thing I hate, but thanks to all involved in producing this excellent Video, I'm sure it will wake up many a Dub.

9

Watchtower Double Speak

by Vanderhoven7 in

on eternal life.

"none of us are in position to earn god’s gifts, least of all to earn the gift of life.

but we can show ourselves worthy of the gift of eternal life by … dedicating ourselves to jehovah and then proving faithful to that dedication.” (the watchtower, august 15, 1952, p. 485).

Phizzy

Slightly off topic, but when I was in the org. before I started to fade, or even wake up at all, I said to an Elder that I would not WANT to live forever in the J.W idea of paradise, he agreed with me !

Thanks Van for the Thread, the J.W doublespeak, or speaking out of both sides of their mouth is Legendary, and especially notable as a form of telling huge Lies, when their Public statements are deliberately designed to hide and distort the reality of what their Org. is and does.

12

Review of Wallace's Grammar

by Wonderment in

review of daniel b. wallace’s greek grammar.

daniel b[aird] wallace is professor of new testament, and author of greek grammar beyond the basics, a work first published by zondervan corporation in 1996. his work has since become a standard work in the intermediate koine greek field and has been translated into half a dozen languages.

it is said two-thirds of bible colleges today that teach the subject use the textbook.

Phizzy

Thanks Earnest, actually that profile was not the definitive answer for me as to the question "Is Edgar.G.Foster a J.W." But I have just downloaded his paper on Christology and the Trinity,and he certainly is a J.W, he says as much within the Paper.

Yes, I am surprised that someone of his obvious Academic ability is a J.W, but then I was equally surprised when first coming across Rolf Furuli many years ago. Furuli made a fool of himself eventually by stepping outside his area of expertise to try to prove the 607 BCE nonsense, he has since been DF'd, but as far as I know is obviously too proud to admit he was wrong about a lot of things to do with 607 BC E. Including his assessment of Babylonian Astronomical tablets.

I think Edgar G Foster must be like a number of Academics from various fields who are Believers in certain things I would not give credence too, because they have not made a deep study of such matters perhaps ?

I have only briefly glanced at the paper I downloaded, and it seems to me he has J.W bias in his attitude to the N.T. but then many Academics have a bias based upon their beliefs, evident in the Christian Academics who would have an opposite view to E.G.Foster's. I agree with what he says though in that paper, that the N.T does NOT teach what trinitarians claim !

I think his mainly positive Review is enough to persuade people that the Wallace Greek Grammar is worth buying !

6

Dr. Bart Ehrman

by truth_b_known in

dr. bart ehrman is a bible scholar who wrote such books as misquoting jesus: the story behind who changed the bible and why and how jesus became god: the exaltation of a jewish preacher from galilee.. i found this interview with dr. ehrman fascinating.

notice are about the 23:35 time stamp one example of many problems with errors in the bible and its many translations.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8evuuadoey.

Phizzy

" For me it's an object lesson in the need to continue the open minded humility it took to free my mind from Fundamentalism."

I agree 100% with that attitude Peaceful, it is mine too, not just on matters to do with the Scriptures, but politics, Current Affairs, new Scientific and Archaeological and Historical discoveries etc.etc

I made the mistake when first leaving the Cult of trusting that all people in the Academic world were right and trustworthy, whoops ! big error ! I now do a lot more digging as to the person behind the claims, seek other Expert's views, and often reserve my judgement on matters.

With Dr Ehrman I realised as I read a couple of his populist books some years ago that he was dumbing matters down a fair bit, which is O.K for the audience he is aiming at, but that he was going further, and sensationalising somewhat. But it sells Books I guess !

12

Review of Wallace's Grammar

by Wonderment in

review of daniel b. wallace’s greek grammar.

daniel b[aird] wallace is professor of new testament, and author of greek grammar beyond the basics, a work first published by zondervan corporation in 1996. his work has since become a standard work in the intermediate koine greek field and has been translated into half a dozen languages.

it is said two-thirds of bible colleges today that teach the subject use the textbook.

Phizzy

Sorry wonderment, I just don't think your JW Foster is Edgar.G.Foster. Your Edgar is lacking the "G". very telling.

9

The Korah Story Composition

by peacefulpete in

a perennial favorite of the wt, and other hierarchal churches, is the infamous korah rebellion tale of numbers 16. the story has been a subject of debate for many many years.

how did korah die?

did his family?

Phizzy

Richard Dawkins certainly didn't like old Yahweh , see his view in "The God Delusion".

Like all invented god's, YHWH reflected the character of those who invented, or in the case of the Israelites adopted, him.

6

Dr. Bart Ehrman

by truth_b_known in

dr. bart ehrman is a bible scholar who wrote such books as misquoting jesus: the story behind who changed the bible and why and how jesus became god: the exaltation of a jewish preacher from galilee.. i found this interview with dr. ehrman fascinating.

notice are about the 23:35 time stamp one example of many problems with errors in the bible and its many translations.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8evuuadoey.

Phizzy

Dr Ehrman is an interesting case, he began his new Testament Studies as a full-on believer, very soon he found some BIG problems with the Gospels, and things just got better from then on.