Posts by Phizzy

20

Hell, what is it

by Anony Mous in

so perhaps we all heard the jw story about jesus talking to gehenna and he was referring to a place outside the city where there was a dump burning refuse and everyone knew what it meant.. according to jw.org: tradition relates that the valley of hinnom thereafter became a place for the disposal of garbage.

and the bible provides confirmation for this.

at jeremiah 31:40, for example, the valley of hinnom is evidently called the “low plain of the carcasses and of the fatty ashes.” there was also the “gate of the ash-heaps,” a gate that seems to have opened out onto the eastern extremity of the valley of hinnom at its juncture with the kidron valley.—nehemiah 3:13, 14.. i think i heard that in the study of the greatest teacher book first.

Phizzy

P.P said "Next, they have to dismiss passages in the NT that clearly express this thought, usually by labeling them as metaphor or symbolism, or in the case of the rich man parable, declare since it was a parable it wasn't a reflection of beliefs. As if that somehow makes sense."

In the case of the JW/WT use of these excuses, it is particularly hypocritical, this Lazarus story is a parable, but the "Faithfull Slave story" just happens to be literal ?

P.P also said "I respect anyone who rejects the concept as barbaric and vengeful but am perplexed by those who dismiss the doctrine while clinging to the writings that teach it." Well said Pete ! this especially applies to JW's, and many others, who take the Bible as all being the "word of god" from Gen. to Rev. And read it very LITERALLY in instances where it suits them, or as showing "belief" when mere metaphor COULD be argued.The "mental gymnastics" they have to go through to excuse the inconsistencies, contradictions and downright disgusting bits in the Bible, is as good to watch as Olympics quality Gymnastics !

27

So where oh where did Judge Rutherford come up with JW theology?

by Terry in

jw
friends

bits of unreported history that may be of casual interest… as to doctrinal origins.

sykes was one-of-a-kind in the pentecostal movement, but he was considered quite a maverick who went his own way with heretical teachings repugnant to the pentecostal faith.. joshua sykes’ congregation was integrated, unlike pastor russell’s public speeches/sermons where blacks and whites both could attend, but only in separate sections--sykes's members were sitting side by side in the pentecostal church.

this was considered dangerous and inflammatory at the time.. pentecostal preacher joshua sykes practiced racial and gender "integration" as early as 1908 -- having both african-american and female assistant preachers, staffers, and members.

Phizzy

Thanks for this Info. Terry, I rarely interest myself much these days in J.W history stuff, I thought I knew it all !

But you have drawn attention to where Rutherford may have stolen his ideas from. Russell was an unreformed Plagiarizer, with few truly unique ideas of his own, it seems Rutherford learned the technique from his predecessor !

If only there was proof positive of direct plagiarising, it would blow out of the water the concept that the Holy Spirit whispered stuff in their ears at ANY time !

5

Beyah the God of the Jews?

by peacefulpete in

having stumbled upon this little tidbit, i thought i'd share.

i've a few times mentioned the midianite or kennite hypothesis which assumes the numerous ot texts that describe yahweh as having migrated north to judah represent credible mnemonic history.

while reading an article by prof. israel knohl i learned something rather surprising.

Phizzy

Thank you so much for this PP, I LOVE stuff like this, I keep going back to old threads from the incredible Leolaia, (what a mind that lady has !) to read about these connections, they fascinate me !

I wonder, do you have info. on if Yahweh/Beyah was actually in the Canaanite pantheon, and if "he" was, did he enter via the Israelites ?

Everything from Ugarit is too early to see something like this, so I guess evidence for Yahweh's exact "travel itinerary" is sparse ?

Keep on posting this stuff please !

The contention that it is an Editorial Gloss in both instances is difficult to maintain. But even if one is, surely the original merely had "Beyah", which would have led early readers to associate with the Canaanite Baal, The "Rider on the Clouds" Storm god, which later editors would try to hide. They wanted all the qualities of Israel's former gods to be adopted/subsumed by Yahweh.

42

Have you ever been on a congregation picnic?

by LostintheFog1999 in

were you ever on a congregation picnic?

i was on several occasions.. the arrangements were often announced from the platform after the closing song and prayer by the last elder up on the platform.. sometimes it was included in the service meeting announcements as "on saturday we're meeting at 10.00am at the kingdom hall for field service, and after field service for anyone who wishes, especially for the younger ones, we will be having a congregation picnic meeting at the beach carpark on seaview road.".

well, according to the new elders manual you won't be hearing those words again.

Phizzy

We had MASSIVE barbecues, with young folks from many other Congregations coming along, virtually all, young and old from ours turned up, better attendance than any Meeting ! about 150 people at the biggest ever one, 70 or 80 normally. This was in the late 70's, early 80's.

A Circuit.Overseer came and put a stop to such"large gatherings", which in fact was wise, we couldn't actually keep control if something really kicked off, but it never had. We also used to have Congregation Outings, hire a Coach,out for the day, usually they tried to give it some sort of vague validity, like visiting the British Museum, and going round the "bible bits".

Those things stopped too, a shame, they brought us all closer, the kids actually enjoyed them, mine were young at the time. But no, can't have you lot going out for the day on a Saturday, "What happens to Field Service ?".

Dumbed down, and very very dull it all is now.

76

Front row seats watching the collapse of watchtower

by Indoubtbigtime in

i’m a pimo ministerial servant and i won’t fade because i want to keep my front row seats watching what happens next few years.. my predictions are that this current governing body will slowly die off and the current younger helpers will be the next gb.

they will eventually have new light that they were wrong about 1914 and the overlapping generations.. the new light will be something on the lines of the last days are now because of king of north king of south pushing each other etc etc.

they will do their very best to burry old literature and try to change the past trying to make it sound like they were right all along just as they have done for 150 years now.

Phizzy

I am heartened just to hear of the young, and youngish people who are leaving , they can now really LIVE their lives !

I was chatting to a young guy I met the other day, he used to go along to the K.H until the late 90's, never joined, but still remembers lots of the young ones who were there then, as I still was, some of these were still babies ! he keeps an eye on Social media, I was amazed at all the young ones he named who have left for sure ! From just one Cong. !

J.W org can maybe fool some youngsters, but not the majority anymore !

11

Why Do JW`s still use the Name Jehovah ,when they admitted in the Aid Book that it is not the correct pronunciation of his name ?

by smiddy3 in

isn`t that an admittion that they don`t have the "truth" ?

about god ?.

Phizzy

Rattigan, sorry to say both your contentions are wrong. Yahweh is recognised as a poor but possible suggestion.

The "Jehovah" version is constructed by using the vowels from Adonai, how does that make ANY sense ?

42

Just courius, some questions about the past

by Gorb in

jw
friends

curious.

time goes by so fast.

who remembers 1975, the ray franz incident, the generation change in 1995, the blood fractions, alternative service, participation in ochr, aid afrique, the historical research by james pellechia, jolene chu and johannes stephan wrobel?

Phizzy

" , simply saying that carbon dating is inaccurate. (In fact, carbon dating is often inaccurate as it typically underestimates the age of the artifact."

True, and there is a system of adjustment that can be done, which dates to an accuracy of plus or minus a decade or maybe two , up to as long as 50,000 years ago.

The WT ignores the fact that there are three or four other methods of dating that are accurate without adjustment, and work for things millions of years old.

They are living in the past, where their lies and half truths were got away with so easily, now they are so easy to check, and often without bothering to do that, J.W's will come across truth accidentally.

J.W's have to deal with a growing Cognitive Dissonance as time goes by, the truth about the Org's past is out in the open, the Facts and Evidence are out in the open that contradict the Org's nonsense on that Past, and other matters, on a daily basis.

11

Why Do JW`s still use the Name Jehovah ,when they admitted in the Aid Book that it is not the correct pronunciation of his name ?

by smiddy3 in

isn`t that an admittion that they don`t have the "truth" ?

about god ?.

Phizzy

Why does it matter how the name is pronounced ? Why does it matter that we try to reconstruct a name that we can never be sure as to what vowels were in it, or in which order ? YHWH.

Honestly, WHY is any of that IMPORTANT ?

We don't pronounce hardly any of the Biblical names as the original writers and their readers did. We don't transliterate the spelling of those names. We use anglicised versions that are recognised as belonging to the person we refer to, so, Jesus, Jonathan, Mary etc. So, with the Divine Name, for once, I agree with the J.W's, an anglicised spelling, with our very own pronunciation, is fine by me, people know EXACTLY of which god we speak.

40

Is it Logical To Beleive In A Creator - GOD ? In This Scientific Age ?

by smiddy3 in

jw
friends

i don`t think so .

hasn`t science ,astronomy ,time , .....proven it an illogical beleif ?.

with the information about this solar system and it`s planets ,other stars and their planets that we have information about ,and the fact that no god has ever revealed him/her self in any shape or form 'there is no evidence that a creator / god has ever existed.. except in the minds of humans who want to control a section of humanity .. the fact that religions rely on "you have to have faith" to beleive in a god ,surely is a cop out.. i look forward to your comments .. and a happy new year to you all..

Phizzy

Could you explain the concept of god you have please Slimboy ?

I have struggled for a concise and succinct definition, perhaps that is asking too much, so a longer explanatory one may have to do, but I end up with something that is not logical, or describes , when you analyse it, something that does not exist !

40

Is it Logical To Beleive In A Creator - GOD ? In This Scientific Age ?

by smiddy3 in

jw
friends

i don`t think so .

hasn`t science ,astronomy ,time , .....proven it an illogical beleif ?.

with the information about this solar system and it`s planets ,other stars and their planets that we have information about ,and the fact that no god has ever revealed him/her self in any shape or form 'there is no evidence that a creator / god has ever existed.. except in the minds of humans who want to control a section of humanity .. the fact that religions rely on "you have to have faith" to beleive in a god ,surely is a cop out.. i look forward to your comments .. and a happy new year to you all..

Phizzy

It never was logical to believe in a creator in any age. And as to morals, this here Atheist does what is right even if big brother or Sky daddy isn't watching me, because I have a Moral Compass.

You lot who are only moral out of fear of your imaginary friend frighten me !