Phizzy

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Posts by Phizzy

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  80

  Quit Quietly now more than ever

  by gone for good in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.

  - no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.

  make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).

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  Phizzy

  I think upon further reflection, and further research prompted by excellent points made in Posts above, my thanks to TD and others, that what I now refer to as "The Letter" LOL, has to be relied upon only as a Threat, one that in actual fact you would be ill advised to carry out by actually going to Court, at least here in the U.K.

  Of course, you must assert to any Legal person signing or Witnessing it, whatever, that the threat is real, see Post above, or they will not agree to notarise it or sign it. As in reality you will not use it in Court, you could get it Witnessed by two people, not related to you, and it would still look good, and not cost you.

  The Defamation of Character thing would depend for success on a Court interpreting that damage to your reputation is more important than the Defence of Truth, which I doubt.

  I can see a problem too under the Human Rights Act 1998 for U.K Residents, this is a very arcane point, but one you may have to fight to establish in Court, and again, the Court may not see things your way. I will not spell it out here, as the JW Legal Attack Dogs may not have spotted it.

  Again I stress, The Letter may deter Elders, for fear they will personally be Sued, but to actually go to Court , and lose, would do none of us any favours, and cost a huge amount.
• 
  80

  Quit Quietly now more than ever

  by gone for good in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.

  - no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.

  make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).

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  Phizzy

  Sorry T.D, and others, I did not really make that bit clear.

  Under U.K Law and no doubt in the USA and other Countries, it would make it plain that you would Sue for Defamation of Character, if they are merely declaring you, in an Announcement, as DA'd.

  The other aspect is the U.K's Human Rights Act, which they would be in breach of for the same reasons that are mentioned in the Swiss case, but this is U.K law, so one would not have to fight anything in the European Courts. This of course would be a different Legal battle from the Defamation case, but still a strong case can be made. I am confident the Threat of both Legal Actions would be sufficient to get the Elders to back off. In both Cases they would have to mount a Defence, what on earth are they going to say ?

  As discussed above, someone facing a Judicial Committee, which is Ecclesiastical, would be in a different, and harder, situation.
• 
  80

  Quit Quietly now more than ever

  by gone for good in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.

  - no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.

  make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).

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  Phizzy

  "I'm not sure how the letter you guys are talking about would not be construed as a formal disassociation in and of itself."

  This is the danger, but the "Letter" prevents them from taking the Action of Announcing you as "No longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses", hopefully, as long as you threaten Legal Action if they do so.

  Their Committee formed to decide if you have Disassociated yourself, the Elders Book says, is NOT "Ecclesiastical" , so how can they take any action against a proven non member, by a Committee with no Ecclesiastical Authority ?

  They have missed the boat, yes, you did in fact disassociate yourself at the Date of the letter, but the time is gone, they cannot Defame the name of a person who is now a mere member of the Public and hope to get away with it.

  The same would apply, if you have the letter, to an Ecclesiastical Judicial Committee, but if you committed a "Sin" as defined by them BEFORE the Date of the Letter, while still a member, you may be in trouble, but it may still help, so again Good Luck everybody !

  It occurs to me also that the Org itself is unlikely to support the Elders involved, or even the Congregation, in a financial way, they will give advice, over the 'phone, once your Letter is revealed to them, to leave well alone, if they have a modicum of sense. If the Elders then go ahead, they are on their own.
  
  
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  47

  Court confirms:--Severe Criticism of Jehovah's Witnesses is Justified!

  by Atlantis in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  court confirms: severe criticism of jehovah's witnesses is justified!.

  https://docdro.id/axa555i.

  petra!.

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  Phizzy

  Vid, in years to come they won't be able to Sue for Defamation, they will not have a shred of Good Character left in the mind of the Public, and the Courts, once all the Child Abuse stuff comes out fully, and these Abuses of the Human Rights of members too.
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  13

  Phone Reverse Witnessing

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i think this gal is incredible.

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  https://youtu.be/pbms453asdo.

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  Phizzy

  I couldn't listen to the blather of that J.W beyond about 4 mins. He was typical of today's JW's just ignorant, of the Bible, of their own Religion and Beliefs, and of anything approaching Scholarship.

  Back in the day, myself, and another guy I can think of from my old Congregation, would have had a polite and intelligent conversation with her, and fought our corner fairly well, not that we could have answered everything to this educated and clever lady's satisfaction no doubt!

  The JW's of today are in the main pathetic, they can only quote the bullshit they have been fed, are very ignorant and uneducated, and retreat in any way they can, "Our Web Site.... " That doesn't work, so, " Sorry I have to go..."

  Anyway, a seed is always planted when something like this is done, a Seed of Doubt and Cognitive Dissonance, who knows when it will grow, sprout and flourish ?
• 
  80

  Quit Quietly now more than ever

  by gone for good in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.

  - no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.

  make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).

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  Phizzy

  Just to reiterate what I Posted above, if you are threatened with Disassociation , then this move by the Congregation is NOT Ecclesiastical.

  They make that plain in the Elders Book, therefore, in this situation, a Notarised letter, or whatever it may be called in your Country, that shows you left entirely a while before any action by the Elders or Congregation, is a great tool.

  You can then claim that your Human Rights, to Freedom of Thought, Conscience and Religion are being breached, also your Human Right to a Family life. Personally I would threaten to Sue any Elders, and the Congregation involved, if any Announcement were made about me, or any rumours circulated. I would claim such action is Defamation of Character.

  Just a word of caution, if you threaten Legal Action, you must intend to go through with it, it is illegal to threaten with no intention of carrying out the Threat here in the U.K.

  Again, Good Luck to all in this situation !
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  17

  Where is Simon?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i haven’t heard from him much lately.. where art thou?

  does anybody know??

  ?.

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  Phizzy

  Where's Simon ? more important Where's Wally !
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  33

  Are You Afraid To Publicity Express Your Opinion?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  are you reticent to express your opinion when it comes to religion or politics?.

  when we were jws , we had to be so careful that we didn’t stumble anyone.

  are you comfortable saying that you don’t agree with someone or something even if it appears you are in the minority?

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  Phizzy

  I am not afraid to express my opinion, on anything, Politics, Economics, Religion, LGBQT etc etc. In fact I cherish and fiercely defend my right to do so. Those who have insulted me personally for my opinion, get a stern reply, that they obviously have no argument to offer, so please leave the debate. If they continue, I will point out that they are obviously ignorant, stupid and uncivilised, and therefore LEAVE the debate.

  The J.W Org of course is against Free Speech, for those within their Org, those who ever had a connection, and even those who never had a connection. The Shunning process is used upon those within, or who ever once had a membership, and Litigation is used for the others.

  J.W Org violates a number of Human Rights, but, being Arch Hypocrites, demands them for themselves.
• 
  80

  Quit Quietly now more than ever

  by gone for good in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.

  - no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.

  make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Phizzy

  Just a further point in the matter of Disassociation, the Elders Book states :

  " Whereas disfellowshipping is an action taken by a judicial committee against an unrepentant wrongdoer, disassociation is an action taken by a baptized individual in the congregation who no longer desires to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. (1 John 2:19; od chap. 14 pars. 30-33) In cases of disassociation, the body of elders should appoint a committee (not judicial) of three elders to consider the facts."

  Notice " not judicial", so the notarised letter idea will not work in this case, please note also, that there is no provision to Appeal, and the Announcement can be made at the very next meeting, no need to wait 7 days as in the case of DFing and a possible Appeal.

  If this is about to happen to you, and you wish it not to, get a Letter off ASAP, saying Legal action will be taken etc etc. Try to keep the rumours to nil, and keep your Reputation !
• 
  8

  Tips on a successful stumble

  by Fadeaway1962 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  hi i don't mean tie my shoe laces together,.

  i realize some theocatic warfare involved (lying) getting fed up with trying to fade .. how do jw family members react?.

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  Phizzy

  Great Post Stephane ! This is exactly what I decided to do, and stuck to it. My JW family have become distant, and in a small way, they "shun" us, we do not get invited to family JW stuff, like Weddings, and there are children in the family that we have only seen briefly, in a shop or something, and so have never got to know.

  They treat us as though we are Disassociated, though we are not officially. I think we are lucky in a way, that their actions are not more harsh.

  We are also lucky that most of our close family are out, my kids, and my In laws are all out, and we have grown much closer to family that never was JW. We also have some very good, lovely, real friends that have also never been JW's.

  But, you simply have to decide how you are going to handle things, and see how they pan out, when you leave. Personally I do not think a kind of " Theocratic Warfare" is morally wrong, I have been cagey, and economical with the truth, with Elders who were set on getting me DF'd for Apostasy, and I never reveal all I know and feel to my JW family, or any other JW.

  I prefer to stay officially "Inactive" , so that if, has happened a few times, JW's that I know who have decided to fade, have no fear of being seen to approach me, and I am able to support them through those early days.

  To anyone thinking of leaving I say, DO IT ! but decide which course of action is best for you, and then, be very careful !