Posts by Phizzy

8

Is the WT changing the 1914 teaching now?

by nonjwspouse in

i've been absent from the forum for about 10 months while deep into a divorce and working long hours.i heard mention in another thread about a change in 1914. is this actually being taught?

i'm very curious.

a extended non jw family member of my soon to be ex spouse finally decided to really do the deep investigation on the jw, and is in the phase of wanting to "ask the direct questions" and inform them of the facts of the jws.

Phizzy

" They can not change 1914 as if that falls the domino's end up with the GB is not gods chosen group. They can not have that." < THIS !!

But for many a year they have changed the way they present it, and the corollary Doctrine of the 1919 choosing of them as god's org.

Both are now presented as a "given", with no real explanation, or attempt to back them up from Scripture in any way that is really pertinent. Just some Scripture that mentions some sort of "End Time" idea. A WT came out around 2012 if memory serves, "explaining" 1914/19 but that just obfuscated the whole thing even more. Since then, it went back to being a "given".

I know this troubled some a bit that were converts late on in my membership, that they did not really understand the 1914/19 thing, but they were by that time too enmeshed, and Mind Controlled, to go back and question it.

19

Is it because of Pride or Loyalty?

by joey jojo in

in a recent effort to entice me back to meetings, an elder friend gave me the example of his dad.. he said that his pioneer/elder/ex-missionary dad went through the anticipation and disappointment of 1975 and yet, he kept going faithfully for decades afterwards.

the obvious point was that, if his dad can deal with disappointment, then, surely a nobody like me could do the same in regards to the scrapping of the 1914 generation doctrine, and all the other changes.

his 'encouragement' was to tell me that it was only me that felt like this, everyone else is fine and have no problems with the changes.

Phizzy

What a great Thread and a thoughtful opening Post Joey jojo !

I think the main two reasons are as you say, either Pride of Loyalty, plus a dash of the Mind Control working too.

The Mind Control works because first off , their minds are switched to " Protect" mode, so that any info. that comes their way that might be disturbing is dismissed as " Apostate lies", or they fend off thoughts by applying the "answer" fed to them by the Org, an answer easily proven to be wrong with minimum research, but they are taught not to do that either.

This self-inflicted ignorance, coupled with Pride and Loyalty, again personality traits that have been fostered by the Org, make it almost impossible for them to wake up. We see the same thing in operation in Political Cults as well.

I do not judge individuals harshly for this, I was one of those people for decades, never too proud to admit I was wrong, or the Org was, but I had a loyalty to the Org, being born in, and I was woefully ignorant, until the Internet helped and educated me.

46

If Whites Are Inherently Racists.....

by minimus in

jw
friends

does that mean that blacks are too?

?.

Phizzy

Racism is taught behaviour, as is religious belief, and the two go hand in hand quite often. Nobody is born Racist.

We are born not conscious of race or colour as being anything remarkable. We are born Atheists.

Wrong thinking, wrong feeling can be changed, unlearned. But only if the person who has learned these errors wants to change.

43

Polls Vs. Crowds

by minimus in

jw
friends

when i see polls suggesting trump has a 95% chance to lose the presidency, according to drudge report, which is now totally liberal, and i see the huge crowds of trump supporters as opposed to the 20 people showing up for biden rallies, i have to wonder what i should believe.

do i believe my lying eyes or am i totally messed up?.

Phizzy

"Polls v Crowds" , going by what happened in our 2019 General Election here in the U.K, I do not think either of those two is a reliable indicator.

I am thinking that Trump is bound to win, too many vested interests want it to be so.

21

2021 Regional Convention (will be prerecorded again)

by Designer Stubble in

**announcement october 28, 2020 for congregations** .

[read after the watchtower study the week of october 26, 2020.\] 2021 regional convention: many have expressed great appreciation for the special arrangement to benefit from the 2020 regional convention during this coronavirus pandemic.

because of the uncertainty of holding large gatherings in 2021 and the evidence of jehovah’s blessing on this year’s convention program, the governing body recently approved the following arrangements for the 2021 regional convention program.

Phizzy

Whoever writes those Letters must piss themselves laughing at the lies : " many have expressed appreciation...." A couple of nutters may have, the rest of the JW's found it both a chore and a bore.

Then the Big Lie " Jehovah's evident blessing.......... " What is meant by that is " Whoopee ! we actually made MORE profit this way than if we had staged normal Bore Fests !".

1

Ezra and Nehemiah

by Doug Mason in

in the course of my research into the second temple period, i gathered material on ezra, nehemiah, and the chronicler.. this file reproduces "peake's commentary on the bible".

the font size in the book can only be about 3 points with no space between the paragraphs.

i have provided two versions, one contains highlights that i made for myself, the other file has no highlights.. https://jwstudies.com/peake_s_ezra_nehemiah_commentary__with_highlights_.pdf .

Phizzy

I have just read the last link you gave, to Persia and Creation of Judaism. This is quite incendiary stuff ! and a real eyeopener !

I do not doubt that most of it is correct, although obviously some is real speculation, and presented as such, and much of the rest we could say is Scholarly Hypothesis,

But it rings so true ! and make so much sense ! The Zoroastrian connections of Judaism were mentioned on another Thread on here, and prompted me to look closer, this Paper ties it all up.

I said it was incendiary, because really it is showing that the present day Nation of Israel has no historic claim to the lands it occupies, earlier than 1948, when it was granted them. If anyone has an Historic claim, it is Iran ! ( Persia).

24

If a JW becomes inactive is he then labeled as an apostate?

by Pallbearer in

i have heard a rumor that if a jw becomes inactive he or she is considered to be an apostate.

is this true?

has anyone here on this forum had such an experience?

Phizzy

w81 9/15 p. 23 par. 16 Disfellowshiping—How to View It ***

16 Persons who make themselves “not of our sort” by deliberately rejecting the faith and beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses should appropriately be viewed and treated as are those who have been disfellowshipped for wrongdoing."

They have a problem with this, as regarding those of us who have been out for a good few years, we have never accepted the "faith and beliefs" That Jehovah's Witnesses have today, so cannot "reject" them, unless someone tries to teach them to us !

I have only been out about 14 years, but never learned the Overlapping Generation tripe or anything since that. Despite this argument being sound, I am viewed by family and the Congregation as a dangerous Apostate and Opposer. Why ? because I have been vocal about what is wrong with JW beliefs, and VERY vocal about their Sexual Abuse , and Domestic Abuse scandals. I have NEVER said anything that is untrue, or factually inaccurate, but that matters not to them. They are Cultish Knobheads.

44

The Watchtower's Most Secret Book!

by Atlantis in

jw
friends

the watchtower's most secret book!.

the truth that gives you eternal life, bethel edition.

the truth that gives you eternal life was published on watchtower presses, and is not to be confused with the truth that leads to eternal life published by the watchtowerbible and tract society.

Phizzy

As SBF says , it would be god to know who wrote the material, and who got it in to book form, and who they were aiming at. I guess the latter is fairly obvious, as the stuff that debunks JW Doctrine permeates the work. They wanted to alert JW's, probably others in bethel, but something stopped its wider distribution, probably The Purge.

This would have been incendiary stuff had it got to the ears of the Bethel Elders, even if they had simply got wind of its existence, but had they read the contents , they would have exploded ! it debunks their favourite thing of the time , which was bringing in recruits very fast, 1975. It also debunks a number of other favourite Doctrines of the JW's.

A fascinating piece of JW History indeed !

10

Second-Temple Period Messiahs

by Doug Mason in

writing is a lonely discipline that is constantly beset with self-doubt and constant self-criticism.

that is the way it needs to be.. there are times when i need to reach out for help in the form of criticism from others.

this is particularly the situation with this material.. https://jwstudies.com/second-temple_period_messiahs.pdf .

Phizzy

Hi Doug, just a quick note on a date for The Letter to the Hebrews, I read somewhere that there is similar Theology evident in it to that of 1 Clement, so at the earliest it would have been written right at the end of the 1st Century. This is just the view of one guy obviously.

The content of Hebrews itself seems to concentrate on the Salvation that it claims Christians have attained, and the need to hang on to it, not to slip in to Apostasy, and is not overly concerned with Jesus as a messiah.

But obviously it agrees with the 4th Gospel that Jesus was Divine in a sense, and thus able to enter heaven and be a mediator and Saviour. Only someone "anointed" by god in some sense could do that. It certainly seems to be addressed to , if not exclusively a priestly Class, certainly Jewish Christians well versed in the ideas found in the Hebrew Bible, and thus able to appreciate the Theological arguments.

44

The Watchtower's Most Secret Book!

by Atlantis in

jw
friends

the watchtower's most secret book!.

the truth that gives you eternal life, bethel edition.

the truth that gives you eternal life was published on watchtower presses, and is not to be confused with the truth that leads to eternal life published by the watchtowerbible and tract society.

Phizzy

I think Petra gave some really good provenance in the O.P. This is Tom Cabeen's personal Copy. I have no doubt it is genuine, and it is of great Historical interest. Thank you Petra/Atlantis !