Posts by Phizzy

30

For Witnesses Who Want To Leave Fade, Disassociate or Get Disfellowshipped?

by minimus in

jw
friends

my opinion is if possible fading is the best way to go..

Phizzy

It depends on your situation, like many others, for me it worked well, i was able to talk to older JW relatives before they passed. And am now on reasonable terms with my JW family. That would not be possible should I be DF'd or DA'd.

I know some cannot wait to be totally disassociated, thinking this will give them freedom and peace of mind, which is true to a degree. But often I think people do not realise that once you have faded for long enough you have every freedom, and the peace of mind comes from making the effort to get rid of JW beliefs and thoughts 100%.

I would advise fading, at least until you are really sure any other move is really for you. To DA is very difficult to undo, and can never be undone completely, you will always be looked upon with suspicion and disdain by the JW's. Much more so then if you have merely faded.

24

Anyone get the feeling that the cult is really in trouble.

by mickbobcat in

so all the bs and hyperbole aside, to me it really looks like the cult is in trouble.

shrinking member, selling halls.

the move to televangelism is really strange to me.

Phizzy

" It will be interesting to see the year end numbers in the next following years."

Yes, although analysis of the figures is always difficult, certainly Publisher numbers will be a pointless figure, what with reporting a mere 15 minutes of "activity" and all the Letter writing etc, it will be no measure at all of how many committed JW's there are, if it ever was a measure. The other figures are doubtful as to veracity too.

The one figure that is of interest, and I don't think they will lie about, or inflate, is the number of Congregations. From that some sort of impression of the true loss of numbers can be extrapolated.

I think, in common with many Businesses, they are struggling now, and will struggle more in a post Covid situation.

7

Donating blood a disfellowshipping offence?? What if an Elder needs my blood fractions?

by Witness 007 in

red cross is desperate for blood at work.

i considered doing it.

is this a disfellowshipping sin?

Phizzy

The wonderful freedom that I acquired by leaving all those years ago meant I could donate blood, Vote, and smoke.

The latter was a silly thing to do, but I enjoyed cigars, I gave up last year due to Covid, but will take it up again when I am 80 years old, why not ?

I am now too old to donate blood, but am glad I did for those years I was able to do so, I hope it helped a good few people. To be involved in politics, local and national is important, a civic duty.

Yes, they could disfellowship me, but would they bother after all these years ? I doubt it, and really do not care.

I am sorry for those stil trapped by the fear of being DF'd, that did worry me for a while, but not enough to impinge upon my freedom to do what i damn well like, and to do what is right.

If you choose to Donate Blood, which you should, and if you were threatened with being DF'd, then there are ways to spike their guns. I doubt they would go ahead if you said you were going on National T.V and to the National and local Press to expose their illogical, unscriptural and vile position on blood.

41

KH's Still All Closed- How Bad is WT doing Financially?

by OnTheWayOut in

most churches are back to in-person worship.

not jehovah's witnesses.

is watchtower still managing to fleece the flocks as the sheeple no longer get literature, no longer go to the kh, no longer walk past the donation box?

Phizzy

As to the financial state of the Org, I should think they are still solvent. They embarked upon a big cost cutting exercise years ago, most Congregations have lower costs at present so will still send the Monthly "Tithe" as I call it at pre-Covid levels.

What huge expenses does the Org have ? They pay NO TAX ever, and if the Contributions only work out from the whole World as $1.00 a week per Publisher, that is still $8,000,000 a week rolling in !

That may be a bit simplistic, Contributions may well be less than that, but not much less I would guess.

The Org. will not go bust anytime soon, but individual Congregations may well struggle to meet their monthly commitment soon, do you think ?

9

I Don't think the jw kids today are afraid of the Elders or the Governing Body, like the jw kids of pre-internet era.

by pistolpete in

something i've notice with born in jw kids posting on reddit, is that they have no problem telling off the elders.

this generation of born in jw kids just have no fear of who the elders represent because they know from researching on the internet, that jehovah is a created character by ancient people, and no different or real, than thanos.. these kids know exactly what's going on with the child sexual abuse in the organization.

they also have read and memorized the elder's book online.

Phizzy

I was a JW kid long before the Internet, a G.B or Elders ! Born in the early 1950's the Watchtower Org. was headed by a President, with different levels of management under him, down to "Congregation Servants".

We were not afraid of anybody, from the President down, but we did try not to get Disfellowshipped, for obvious reasons.

I grew up always questioning the WT teachings and claims, and when I moved Congregations joined with a bunch of guys similar to me, we took no shit from the Org, C.O's were seen as a nuisance who would move on eventually.

But we were exceptional, the rest of the Congregations around us towed the line, and were in fear of the Org's authority over them, I guess the people in those Congs. in turn spawned kids with that fear ?

The kids I have come in to contact with who have left, or are PIMO, have no fear, apart from the one of being DF'd. I guess most young ones have now "seen behind the curtain".

6

“Joshua” and “Jesus” are the same Greek and Hebrew/Aramaic name: is this not confusing?

by psyco in

god’s name disappeared in the christian greek scriptures and its pronunciation got lost in the hebrew-aramaic ones.

the current vowels of the hebrew pronunciation of god’s name are taken from the “adonay” (“lord”) hebrew word which were the vowels chosen by who did not want to pronounce his name.

whereas the current latin pronunciation of god’s name (“jehovah”) was introduced by raymundus martini, a spanish monk of the dominican order, in his book published in 1270 c.e.

Phizzy

Nothing confusing about it when you look at the origins of the names. The name of the Israelite god Yahweh is etymologically difficult to nail down, but the name evolved as the god travelled from probably Egypt, via Midian, and he became a minor god in the Canaanite Pantheon, the name being pronounced differently by these different peoples, no doubt. Eventually he was adopted as an Israelite tribal god, among the others they worshipped, until after the Babylonian Exile when a form of Monotheism began to emerge.

Jesus of Nazareth was no doubt named by his parents in the normal way, choosing a name for him with nice connotations, but shared with many boys born around that time. At the time of choosing a name, his parents were not to know a huge Mythology would grow up around him, after his death.

5

Job 31 v 11

by zachias in

in job 31 v11 it states that an inappropriate sex act is a crime not a 'sin'.

if this so between adults then it must extend that it is so if children are involved.

but the wt refers to paedophilia as a sin..

Phizzy

The Job story is a very old one, called "Oriental" by many scholars because it probably was around long before the Israelites and their adopted God were in existence.

It was picked up as good yarn and adapted by the Priests who compiled the O.T. as we call it, after the Babylonian Exile.

We have to think of how women were looked upon and treated at the time the story originated, even if Job was referring to an actual sexual liaison that was not between husband and wife, at this time it would have been seen only as a Crime against the Property of another. Coveting what was not yours was seen as wrong at this time, Sexual acts, even in the mind of the beholder, did not become "Sin" until much much later.

6

Another shocking tidbit from the "Douglas Walsh" trial of 1954.

by EdenOne in

i'm reviewing the entire transcript of the douglas walsh case, and found this shocking bit that normally doesn't come up in the search engines, but it should:.

pages 370-375. hayden cooper covington on the stand:.

q: “in your experience of your own congregation in new york, did you have children there of eleven or twelve being baptized?”.

Phizzy

" What a crock of horse-manure! " Atlantis.

It certainly is, to expect young children to enter in to a Lifetime Contract and understand the ramifications of that Contract is recognised as wrong in Law in most Countries. Of course many Countries allow a similar "contract" in the form of being born in to, and initiated in to a particular Religion, to stand, but a Commercial Contract would be void.

The weaselly way they get round this is that if, like me, after child baptism ( I was 12) , you proceed to continue to live the life of a JW in to adulthood, then, according to the JW Org, you have shown you do know what your baptism was all about, and they can Disfellowship, Excommunicate you, for any number of things they have mainly made up.

A Crock of Shit indeed.

20

"Resurrection" or "Re-Creation of The Soul"? What do really JW's teach?

by EdenOne in

interesting find through a book "inside story of jehovah's witnesses" (1967) by w.c. stevenson, supposedly a former jw circuit overseer.

it's an interesting "apostate" perspective written prior to the wts 1975 debacle.. anyway, at a certain point, there's a quote from a book called "the four cults", by professor anthony a. hoekema (1963, william b. eerdmans publishing company), a calvinist, which makes some sharp remarks about the way jehovah's witnesses teach the dead coming back to life:.

1) in the case of those "resurrecting" for everlasting life on earth, one asks: if the soul is extinct at death, and the body disintegrates and its components are integrated into other forms of life, what is there to "resurrect"?

Phizzy

Hi DJW,

yes you did make it clear to me that the WT version of resurrection was talking about what is essentially a clone. I was just underlining that thought for JW's who may never have considered it before.

Your observation tha the WT teaches the following concept is true too of course, " Maybe some of us can be satisfied with the idea that our data and mental program will be preserved and later implanted into a body which has a very close resemblance to our current body, with the newer body becoming youthful and perfect over time." I was one who was satisfied with that as a JW.

The problem with it is that if that is the case, it means that the "Soul" of the person, their memory/personality, does not die. Yet O.T Scripture says it does !

What the JW's teach and believe is essentially the concept of " Soul Sleep", which means that the Soul is Immortal, ( at least in some sense of the word), a Doctrine they have railed against for years, since the time of Russell if memory serves.

Another example of JW muddled, illogical Theology, in conflict with Scripture.

2

What Door to Door has been Like For J W's the Past 20 Years

by IWant2Leave in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ki801ccg9yo.

Phizzy

In all my 50 years of door knocking, I never had a door slammed in my face, lucky I suppose. Some were very short with me and cut the conversation short with a firm " I am NOT interested" or something, but never was a door slammed. Perhaps the people where I was located were too polite ? I dunno.

I should think it is painful for today's JW's to door knock now, and few will want to return to it. People , genuinely, are not the slightest bit interested in religion here in the U.K as a rule, even Believers think it is a private matter, and don't want a discussion at the door, and have no desire to visit a Cult Website.

Even when I was an active, believing JW the futility of door knocking was apparent to me. It was starkly illustrated for me when an elderly "sister" who had pioneered since her teens told me in all those years she had never contacted someone at the door, got a "Study" and sucked them in to the Cult. Yes, she had "studied" with many, but none from her own first contact ! 40 years of non-productive door knocking !

Door to Door will soon die as a method of keeping J.W's occupied. Letter writing too will pale for them, easier than knock-knocks, but boring, and no results to speak of, so what will the G.B come up with next, to keep JW's on the Treadmill and away from Truth they can find on the Internet ?