Posts by Phizzy

6

Something that bothers me personally

by Blotty in

(i apologise if this is the wrong section for this - its the one i think suits best)this may sound really cliché (it does in my opinion) and a first world thing, but it bothers me someone can be like this and spout these "illogical" arguments (among others, which i will list as questions in the near future)i recently (as of 21/11/22) finished up a conversation with someone on a few things - i find one of their "implications" slightly concerning.. they wouldn't accept "evidence" from scholars who seemingly didn't agree with their standpoint which is interesting.

i.e on the divine name, i listed scholars such as george howard - i got the answer "try a real scholar"or another example i cited beduhn as (in my opinion) he is easy to understand but then got told "he doesn't teach greek at a university so his opinion is not valid" - scholars may not cite beduhn, but from looking at other factors he really gets nothing wrong (linguistically)once again i apologise if this is wasting anyone's time.

Phizzy

"you seem to be focusing on the Jewish name for God", the problem with arguing about it is manifold, but YHWH is in all probability not a "Jewish" or Hebrew name anyway. The god YHWH came from a nearby people, who spoke a language no doubt closely related among the Semitic languages to Hebrew, but different even so.

If you are arguing about whether "Jehovah" should be in the N.T at all, Scholars are not in agreement at all upon this. The arguments both ways are good.

As Pete says above, it isn't important as far as its use in the NWT is concerned apart from two aspects, one is that it is obvious that the bias of the NWT producers/editors is obvious as to when they do put "Jehovah" in and when they do not, and the second is the JW org. contention that they bow to the authority of the earliest M.S , they do not in this case do they ?

6

Temple Talk

by peacefulpete in

recall the famous charge made against jesus in his trial in the gospel mark: .

“we heard him say, ‘i will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and in three days i will build another, not made with hands.’”.

matt has a shorter version which likely reflects what he saw in his copy of mark:.

Phizzy

As with all the Gospels, totally exact dating is impossible for Mark. We know it has suffered additions, the long Ending being the obvious, but was the bit written about the temple rebuild a fair time after 70 CE, a year or two, when it was obvious that it wasn't going to happen, the "three days" being long gone ?

On the Zechariah "prophecy" this comes from the section of the book known as Second Zechariah from Chapter 9 on from memory, so is it a prophecy ? or by the time of writing was rebuilding well under way ? Please correct me if I have this wrong Pete, this is just my rambling thoughts, prompted by my skepticism of any seeming bible prophecy.

7

It appears Paul utilized Wisdom of Solomon

by peacefulpete in

romans 1:18-31.

18 the wrath of god is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about god is plain to them, because god has made it plain to them.

20 for since the creation of the world god’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.. 21 for although they knew god, they neither glorified him as god nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Phizzy

Good find Pete ! I always like to find where the Bible Writers have plagiarised plot ideas and , as here, whole chunks of the written word.

This is the first time I have been made aware of Paul doing it. Are there perhaps, other instances ?

This is quite incendiary stuff for homophobic fundamentalist Christians, as Paul is obviously not inspired to write the words they love to quote, but is quoting the Unknown writer of a 1st Century BCE Book identified by them as Apocryphal !

14

2013 New World Translation

by Jerome56 in

on their website in the video "organizational accomplishments" watchtower devotes this segment to praising the superiority of the new world translation.

about half way through, david splane relates the reason for a change in wording from the old 1984 nwt reference bible to the 2013 revised nwt.

he said this was because of the recent discovery of an older manuscript that contained the greek word for overseer that was unavailable when the reference bible was being compiled.

Phizzy

It is interesting that 1st and 2nd Peter were written very late in the 1st Century by which time the early Church was becoming more organised and maybe here in Chapter 5 of 1st Peter we see more the emergence of the concept of a Bishop , who is not merely an Elder of the general group of Congregation Elders, but has Oversight of them and the rest of the Flock.

So that makes the J.W authority figure, Chairman of the Body of Elders, a Bishop !

13

Does anybody ever wonder why ?

by smiddy3 in

jw
friends

supposedly, god jehovah, el , or whatever else he may have been called many thousands of years ago, or so the storys goes ,dealt with humans on a regular basis communicating with them for either good or bad.according to how they pleased him or displeased him.. so the bible record says.. how is it that god , jehovah or whatever other name you want to call him has not communicated with humans on any level for the past 2000 years ???.

in this scientific ,technological age ,wouldn`t you think this would be the time he would communicate with the potential dangers we face in potentially destroying ourselves and ruining the planets wildlife unless he interveined ?.

that`s if you even beleive that such a god actually exists .. and if he does why so silent in this day and age,?.

Phizzy

There is a theory of how the brain/mind evolved that says that at one time the brain was bicameral, and so very similar in the effects people felt to what Schizophrenic people who hear voices feel, that the voices are real, and must be obeyed.

As the brain/mind evolved so that both Chambers communicated more than previously, the voices disappeared, and people who still heard them were rare, and became Oracles.

Sounds feasible to me.

8

Help needed

by NewLight in

jw
friends

i’ve been visiting this site for quite a long time, although i rarely posted.

i would like to thank simon and all the participants, for the valuable information and support that is available here, for anyone searching about the jw organization.. just a brief introduction of myself: i live in europe (english is not my native language, so please bear with any mistakes i make).

i was born in a jw family and i’m still in the organization, but i’ve been “on the fence” about leaving the organization for quite a long time.

Phizzy

Hi New Light !

I was born in, in for decades, decided to fade, walked out of the K.H one day shortly after that decision, and then decided I could never go back, not even for a slow fade, so, I left "Cold Turkey" as they say when you just give up drugs.

I did not know at that point what would happen, would my wife stay "in" ? would my JW family shun me ? would I lose all my JW friends, people I had grown up with, and seen them marry and have kids etc ?

My wife agreed never to go back too ! Phew ! my JW family only shun me in the mildest way. One of the family told us a while ago : "We still love you, you know" . Sweet.

I did lose all my JW friends, they decided I was dangerous to know, that I would "ruin their faith" if they spoke to me.

I had some good friends who were never J.W's so hooked up with them more, and that has been wonderful, I am now closer to them than I ever was in reality to JW "friends", these "worldly" friends really care for us, do things for us, out of the ordinary things, they offer ! they love without conditions. Most "worldly" people are great !

All I can hope is that your exit is as easy, you must decide how to do it, fade or just stop. Do whatever is best for you. Do your homework, and get rid of all J.W false teachings, and the fear of the false idea of Armageddon etc.

Good Luck, all the best for the future !

28

An interesting Observation of some Bibles

by Blotty in

first of all, hi, i go by blotty on this website :) i am someone who has a passion for the bible and like to get a as balanced view as i can from the trinitarian and the jw (or unitarian) side - even though i come off as leaning towards one or the other at times, in my opinion they both have merits in certain cases..if this is in the wrong section i apologise - this is just something i found interesting.iv seen online a lot that say the watchtower and tract society "invented" the link between proverbs 8:22 - 30 and jesus (the word).

yet interestingly some "mainstream" "trinitarian- aimed" translations are cross referencing the following:source:https://www.biblegateway.comprov 8:22 cr rev 3:14niv, gnt,esv, nasb, nasb1995, nasbre, cevprov 8:30 cr john 1:1,2 esv nasbprov 8:30 cr john 1:3esvnasb1995nasb(this list is by no means complete)if this is simply wisdom, why is it referenced with jesus (or the word)?.

Phizzy

In reality trying to marry Figures, Motifs, Poetic metaphors and Messianic statements in the Hebrew Scriptures to an itinerant preacher from Nazareth is a nonsense invented by those Jewish Christians as they built up the Jesus Myth.

No writer in the Hebrew Scriptures could have had foreknowledge of Jesus of Nazareth.

What interests me more than the links made by N.T writers is the origin of things in the Hebrew Scriptures. Leading Scholars in near eastern texts and Religions such as John Day and Mark.S.Smith,suggest that the figure of "Wisdom" draws on earlier older motifs pertaining to the goddess Asherah, consort to El in Canaanite religion, and, as is now thought, consort to Yahweh in pre-Babylonian Exile Israelite religion. So Wisdom was a real person, not just a metaphor, she was the Goddess Asherah.

30

Opinions on the Divine name in the New Testament? + an interesting question

by Blotty in

i am genuinely curious and mainly posting this for research purposes, i do not have enough knowledge on either of these subjects to debate them in any useful manner.. (this information is as far as i am aware and may be incorrect in places)as most know the nwt is known for placing a form of the divine name in the nt (new testament) - while i agree the evidence is significantly weak for it too appear in the nt, a few things must be considered - (from my limited research)rev references the name twice (3:12, 14:1)early copies of the lxx contain the divine name (likely the versions that the nt writers copied?

stafford has a couple of videos on this subject)it was emphasized over and over the name [divine name, which ever form you prefer] would be "known" (other words used aswell) forever - if this is true, why then go against your own message in some cases and replace it with a surrogate?some also claim the nwt is dishonest for not translating some occurrences of "lord" as the divine name - common ones i notice are: phil 2:10-11, 1pe 3:14-15, heb 1:10yet these all use "lord" as a title not a proper noun, seems to be staunch trinitarians who make this claim most oftenscholar qualifications:why does a scholars qualification's matter?

sounds dumb i know.

Phizzy

The thorny question of the Divine name as derived from YHWH, being in the New Testament has been debated long and hard on here, and throughout the Academic world where Scholars have an interest in the matter.

We cannot know what was in the Autograph Copies of the N.T Gospels, letters and Writings, because we have no manuscripts even close in time to the original autographs.

J.W Org claims to stick closely to MS evidence, favouring the oldest available as being more accurate, which is in itself debatable, but whatever, they are therefore being disingenuous in inserting "Jehovah" where they cannot find it in N.T manuscripts that we have, i.e nowhere. They have NO manuscript support for what they have done.

I am aware of all the arguments in support of the view, a mere opinion, that the divine name in some form did appear in the Autograph copies of the N.T. I have no firm conclusion either way, but either you follow the sensible method of only including in your Bible what you actually find in the extant MS, or you produce an Amplified Paraphrase version, based upon your own Theology and Christology, which is what the NWT is.

14

DUBTOWN has been resurrected!!

by BoogerMan in

something to cheer about, after the jw cult's failure to silence kevin mcfree.

closed captions/subtitles are facilitated.

enjoy.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqdxo1v8ilm&t=481s.

Phizzy

Really funny, spot on observations, but even after all these years still triggering for me, I got that sinking feeling in the gut, that I used to get even going anywhere near a Kingdom Hall when I first left.

Just hearing the actual J.W Mind Control Speak is a thing I hate, but thanks to all involved in producing this excellent Video, I'm sure it will wake up many a Dub.

9

Watchtower Double Speak

by Vanderhoven7 in

on eternal life.

"none of us are in position to earn god’s gifts, least of all to earn the gift of life.

but we can show ourselves worthy of the gift of eternal life by … dedicating ourselves to jehovah and then proving faithful to that dedication.” (the watchtower, august 15, 1952, p. 485).

Phizzy

Slightly off topic, but when I was in the org. before I started to fade, or even wake up at all, I said to an Elder that I would not WANT to live forever in the J.W idea of paradise, he agreed with me !

Thanks Van for the Thread, the J.W doublespeak, or speaking out of both sides of their mouth is Legendary, and especially notable as a form of telling huge Lies, when their Public statements are deliberately designed to hide and distort the reality of what their Org. is and does.