locally, in northern california i have seen/heard a drop in jw and mainstream church attendance especially in person attendance.
(exception: a new creepy local new-age charismatic/pentecostal group: "bethel church" 11,000 and growing mega church(kundalini yoga/sex combined with prosperity gospel, trumpism, guns, rock music, dancing, glitter, speaking in tongues, and faith healing).. for me this paragraph sums it up regarding jehovah's witnesses: " ...smith described organized religion to me as having become a “polluted” idea in the american mainstream, because of the publicity around sex abuse scandals and financial malfeasance in many different faiths in the ’80s and ’90s as millennials came of age.
“the scandals violated most of the virtues believed to make religion good,” smith wrote.
" I assume that it just doesn't matter much in their lives anymore."
That has been the case for many decades here in Europe, with the result that the offspring of those who were not indoctrinated, are unaffected by, and uninterested in organised religion.
Organised religion is withering and dying here in the U.K and most of Europe, and the same will happen in the USA.
there are 1/2 of the jehovah’s witnesses that there were 30 years ago in my area.
some have left but i think that many have died and none of their kids stayed being jehovah’s witnesses.
7 congregations have been dissolved over the years.
" The fact that 1/2 are still there is what amazes me! "
I have felt that way for years, but particularly since the unbelievably ridiculous Overlapping Generation thing came in, how can anyone not see what nonsense that is ??
And yet thinking back, a lot of J.W's over 50 years ago, when the Org. came out with something that deified logic, reason and fact etc. would simply say " Oh that's all too deep for me"., and carry on regardless.
They trusted that the Org. must have it right.
There "faith" is in a few old men who twist and misuse Scripture, a blind faith if ever there was one.
With the bleeding of numbers it is plain the Org. has lost even that grip they once had, and of that "half" that remain, I would wager only a miniscule percentage are really of the old 100% believing kind that used to be a majority in the Org.
Over 90% of those that remain I guess are there for other reasons than belief, the Org. is now more of a Social Club than a religion.
https://youtu.be/7xumqjq3zfc?si=ivcg96t4dtgze4ft.
so this is from the brand new watchtower study edition of june 2025 which has just been posted on jw.org .under the title: modestly accept what you do not know, a let’s read paragraphs in question 4 &5: “read matthew 24:36. we do not know when the end of this system of things will come.
even jesus, while on earth, did not know the ‘day and hour.’ he later told the apostles that jehovah, who is the great timekeeper, keeps the timing of certain events ‘in his own jurisdiction,’ or authority.
The J.W. org., along with many other sects, ignores the long agreed meaning of "Genea" or Generation, in Jesus words in Matthew and Luke, Vines Expository Dictionary explains that it means what we mean by the word in most instances, a group of people who inhabit together a time that lasts 30 or 40 years, and then the next generation comes along, Vines also explains that it does NOT mean "a time period of indeterminate length".
By using Eisegesis, reading in to a Text what is NOT there, J.W. org. twist the obvious and plain meaning of Jesus words when he said " this generation", he meant those people standing and listening to him, who were of an age with himself.
His prediction failed, but to look for a later fulfillment of a prediction that has already failed in a major feature of it is plain silly.
i’m still an elder and i consider myself jw light.
as my fellow elders are.
we don’t throw our weight around like elders used to in the past, it’s all very easy going these days.
With the J.W "religion" being as "light" as it has ever been I guess there are a good number of returnees, people who left a good while ago going back returning to restore normal family relationships.
I learned of two yesterday, the guy NEVER has been a believer in the J.W nonsense, brought up in it, never baptised, now in his mid thirties. His new wife I do not know, she may have been the reason he went back.
This kind of returnee will boost numbers a little, but will do little to strengthen the religion, more likely it will weaken it, as people like that young guy will be seen to get away with a lot, he did throughout his teens, nothing the Elders could do, he was unbaptised. They used to give him a good talking to now and again, but he nodded and agreed, and then carried on as usual !
The whole J.W "light" idea is to boost numbers and keep the $$$ flowing in.
casey sabella writes.
many of their teachings have no biblical basis whatsoever.
they claim those leaders are in fact the faithful and discreet slave jesus spoke about in matthew 24. further, they alone were selected by jesus himself in 1919 to identify as this slave and that all other churches are false.. only 144,000 can partake of communion and go to heaven.
On another thread Slimboy wrote : " If you handed the Bible to somebody afresh without any history of dogma attached there is no way they would ever come up with...........................".
Insert in the gap all of their unique Teachings/Doctrines and that applies.
rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?
as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.
that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.
" If you handed the Bible to somebody afresh without any history of dogma attached there is no way they would ever come up with............................" Insert any unique J.W Doctrine or Teaching and you will find the same thing.
So much for " Our teachings are based on the Bible" !
rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?
as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.
that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.
Good thoughts here from the old Archbish. and yourself Slimboy.
As a non-believer myself, I don't believe any gods ever existed, or ever will., these are mere questions of academic interest to me, but, I AM interested ! It is now a hobby of mine to study the development of ideas and of religions.
I can see how the Trinity Doctrine came about, the basis for the thinking behind it is in Scripture, the Writer of the Gospel of John drew on the Hebrew Scriptures to formulate his ideas, and Greek Philosophy too somewhat.
The Church would have been far better off had it not gone beyond what that Writer said !
As is obvious, the Trinity Doctrine as it stands goes "beyond what is written" and is beyond Logic, and it is beyond Reality, as also are any ideas about gods being real.
i’m still an elder and i consider myself jw light.
as my fellow elders are.
we don’t throw our weight around like elders used to in the past, it’s all very easy going these days.
P.P said " Those that chose to fade, walk or stomp away didn't do it just so as to be free to do birthdays openly, they wanted their lives back, with a clear sense of self-direction, and intellectual honesty."
That was why I simply walked away one day, never to return. It is in my genetic make-up to be a Lover of Truth, to pretend I am not, which I would have to do if I remained in the J.W's, would have been to deny WHO I AM !
I decided that Truth is ONLY that which has irrefutable Evidence. Anything with a lesser quality of Evidence is mere opinion. And things with Zero Evidence, like beliefs in gods etc. can be discounted as valid opinions, having no evidence means they do not accord with Reality in any way.
I did not know how my family, especially my darling wife would react to my leaving, or what the Elders would do, but, to be true to myself I simply HAD to walk away, from a "religion" founded upon, and maintained by Lies.
Those who are J.W Light are such for a variety of reasons, but either they are not truly Lovers of Truth, or if they are, they are denying who they really are !
To be in either situation is not a mentally comfortable one, and mitigates against attaining full Peace and Happiness.
But, each to his own, I do not criticise people for that kind of decision, I just feel sorry for them, I know how wonderful it is to have full Intellectual Freedom, and a clear sense of self direction, and to be comfortable in my own skin, because I am now the REAL ME.
https://www.oakbaynews.com/news/grand-forks-jehovahs-witnesses-lose-privacy-law-appeal-7897541 .
Thanks for Posting ! Interesting and encouraging this ! If the J.W's are silly enough to Appeal to a higher Court, I have little doubt they will lose there too, as they should !
the wts has used to above terms, over the years, some more preferred in certain time periods.
more though, but these occurred to me first.
also the terms "new world" and "new world order" have been used by some us presidents and other leaders..
The "New World Order" or whatever expression they chose to use was the Carrot, the fear of Armageddon the stick.
I remember when I was in my late teens walking past an elderly "Brother" who was talking to a friend of mine, a young J.W, who had stopped going to the Meetings, the old Boy said to my friend "You know Armageddon's coming", my young friend just nodded, and I walked on and heard no more. But that was over 60 years ago, the old boy is long dead, as are nearly all of his generation.
"Armageddon" is still "imminent" according to the twisted beliefs of J.W. org. as it has been since the late 19th Century.
The young feller was not daunted by the fear of Armageddon, or tempted by the "promise" of a New World, he never went back to the J.W's. Some years later the guy who had brought him in to the J.W's when he was still a schoolboy, made a trip from overseas where he lived, and made a point of calling on his friend, in an attempt to suck him back in to the J.W's, when he asked the young feller why he no longer was a Witness, the young feller replied "Because it's all a Load of Bollocks".
No longer are most of the the young J.W's tempted by the idea of a New World, and I hope not in fear of a mythical Armageddon, and certainly the Public also think it is all a "Load of Bollocks", so what do the J.W Org. have these days as a product to sell that will appeal ?
That Carrot and Stick no longer work !
