Posts by paulvarjak

18

What is this about Marking?

by Missie Eff in

jw
friends

i have a good freind here with me this evening.

(celtic, if you're around you know her - it's liane).

there is something that has always puzzled both of us.

paulvarjak

The body of elders that I was a part of, in Texas BTW, was a marking machine. It was a regular feature and I have personally talked to the service desk in NY regarding the "proper protocol".

The most common marking is for those dating or marrying unbelievers. But it can apply to almost any situation and is at the discretion of the elder body for anything that is not technically a disfellowshipping matter but would represent shady conduct. By the protocol outlined from WT, the person is to be counseled first. If they don't respond and continue with their course then they would be informed that they are going to be marked.

This takes place with a talk from the platform where the person is not specifically identified, but the congo is given specific enough info to get the idea of whom and why. For instance, 'Would we want to associate with one who flaunts righteous standards by dating a worldly man...' or 'We should guard against association with ones who would be involved with (fill in the blank)', etc.

paul

49

BEAT that Child!

by Farkel in

jw
friends

this is sort of a continuation of threads on dubs and how they are conditioned to discipline their children.

someone questioned whether the society actually encouraged dubs to whup their children.

i only had enough time to dig up a few salient quotes from the wt magazine.

paulvarjak

You remember the song about children being precious gifts?

"They are gifts from God...
He says use the rod..."

I remember my father pausing during a public talk, saying "Excuse me" to the audience, coming off stage and giving my brother and I a couple of good swats to the backside, then going back on the platform and continuing as if nothing had happened.

I gave a public talk about 5 years ago in a hall and this elderly sister comes up afterward and says "I remember when you were a boy, your dad used to spank your behind right on the front row..."

Fark, reading those WT quotes made me ill.

paul

15

Old Kingdom Melodies

by muslima in

jw
friends

even after a bit of time has gone by - do lyrics to "kingdom melodies" still drift in anyone's head?.

it is over 6 years now -- yesterday and even still now - for whatever reason the song with the lyrics "the way of the truth is the best way of living" -- just that line kept going through my head!

it's driving me crazy!.

paulvarjak

I always liked the "bees that were molested".

5

Questions on WTBTS abortion teachings

by Skimmer in

granted that the wtbts is, in general, anti-abortion.

interestingly, i can't find a reference to it in the _pay attention_ elders' manual, although tobacco and breast caressing are worthy of mention as being offensive.. i have encountered reports that the official wtbts abortion teaching includes the idea that an unborn child who dies as a result of abortion or miscarriage is considered not to be eligible for a resurrection in paradise earth, let alone a residence in heaven.. isn't this more than a little inconsistent with the wtbts "body equals soul" teaching?

if an unborn child is not considered human and is so denied a future, then why is a jw female punished (by being disfellowshipped, i assume) if she has an abortion?.

paulvarjak

I've always thought this to be inconsistent.

One of thier abortion "proof texts" is Exodus 21:22,23 which concerns a pregnant woman being injured (which they extend to the fetus). If this happened, the life of the injurer was to be taken "soul for soul".

Yet the baby doesn't have a soul to be resurrected?

paul

29

some 2001 year figures reported on wol

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

not sure of the accuracy: http://www.witnessesonline.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/witnessesonline/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=000129

paulvarjak

Next years figures will be seriously skewed due to the WTC disaster. All those fearful inactives streaming back to the FDS 'the end is almost upon us' nonsense.

Pity, but expected.

52

Favorite Dead Performer

by Yerusalyim in

jw
friends

equal time, and given the spirit of the season, who is your favorite dead performer?.

mine, buddy holly, though he just kinda laid there and oozed all over the stage.. yerusalyim.

"vanity!

paulvarjak

Keith Richards

36

10/1 WT: Creative days = 7,000 years

by Seeker in

jw
friends

the fourth paragraph on page 30 in the october 1, 2001 wt says this:.

"getting back to paul's statement in hebrews, we note that he pointed out that "there remains a sabbath resting for the peoples of god," and he urged his fellow christians to do their utmost "to enter into that rest.

" this shows that when paul wrote those words, "the seventh day" of god's rest, which had started some 4,000 years earlier, was still in progress.

paulvarjak

My exwife, a JW pioneer of 15 years, thought that dinosaurs were all a hoax "like the cavemen". She was staunch that they never existed until the 1990 WT came out and she read it from "God's channel".

Try reasoning with a person like that.

2

Outrage

by paulvarjak in

jw
friends

this morning, i awoke and read discussions on this board from ones who were frightened by the events of the week, who are still manipulated by longheld jw beliefs to see this as a sign and i was outraged.

when i began to read my sunday paper, i was further outraged by the tragedy in new york, washington d.c. and pittsburg and the following statements from dr. david skidmore, professor of political science and international relations at drake university.

commenting on the assumption of arab nations he stated that in the arab mind "the united states is all-powerful, is in control and dictates things...if something happens, it is because the united states wants it.".

paulvarjak

This morning, I awoke and read discussions on this board from ones who were frightened by the events of the week, who are still manipulated by longheld JW beliefs to see this as a sign and I was outraged.

When I began to read my Sunday paper, I was further outraged by the tragedy in New York, Washington D.C. and Pittsburg and the following statements from Dr. David Skidmore, professor of political science and international relations at Drake University. Commenting on the assumption of Arab nations he stated that in the Arab mind "the United States is all-powerful, is in control and dictates things...If something happens, it is because the United States wants it."

I remembered how I once believed as a JW that Satan was in control and responsible for all things evil. How it was "us against them". The "world" versus "God's chosen people". "Christian warfare". Granted, JWs are not a militant group. But the fundamentalist thoughts responsible for this weeks sensless violence and JW fundamentalism are eerily similar.

So are the effects. Without minimizing or trivializing the tragedy that happened in my nation, I must admit that the results of this weeks terrorism are similar to JW fundametalism - families and communities being torn appart or destroyed. 4,800 victims this week. How many suffer enforced shunning so far this year? How could I have once believed this?

When I think of persons considering going back to the Witnesses precisely because of the fear that they have engendered, there is only anger and grief.

10

Another nasty misquotation

by RunningMan in

jw
friends

on tuesday, my wife had a talk in the ministry school.

the reasoning book and was on the subject of evolution.. one of her arguments contained a quote from carl sagan that seemed to.

support creation.

paulvarjak

EH -
Here's the quote you were referring to (off of Osarif's website):

An interesting comment on this transformation was made by Carl Sagan in his book Broca's Brain (New York: Ballantine Books, 1979, pp. 332-333):

Doctrines that make no predictions are less compelling than those which make correct predictions; they are in turn more successful than doctrines that make false predictions.

But not always. One prominent American religion confidently predicted that the world would end in 1914. Well, 1914 has come and gone, and — while the events of that year were certainly of some importance — the world does not, at least so far as I can see, seem to have ended. There are at least three responses that an organized religion can make in the face of such a failed and fundamental prophecy. They could have said, "Oh, did we say `1914'? So sorry, we meant `2014.' A slight error in calculation. Hope you weren't inconvenienced in any way." But they did not. They could have said, "Well, the world would have ended, except we prayed very hard and interceded with God so He spared the Earth." But they did not. Instead, they did something much more ingenious.

They announced that the world had in fact ended in 1914, and if the rest of us hadn't noticed, that was our lookout. It is astonishing in the face of such transparent evasions that this religion has any adherents at all. But religions are tough. Either they make no contentions which are subject to disproof or they quickly redesign doctrine after disproof. The fact that religions can be so shamelessly dishonest, so contemptuous of the intelligence of their adherents, and still flourish does not speak very well for the tough-mindedness of the believers. But it does indicate, if a demonstration were needed, that near the core of the religious experience is something remarkably resistant to rational inquiry.

14

How Long Did the Transition Take?

by troubled in

jw
friends

i was wondering, for those of you who have left the organization, how long did the transition take?

i mean, how long after you left did you feel up in the air, in turmoil, lost, unsettled?

long long before you felt comfortable with the decision and basically happy with your life?

paulvarjak

Troubled,

I left in October of last year. I think the things that helped me most were my friendship with non-JWs and reading, reading, reading. The Ray Franz books are great, The Gentile Times Reconsidered and Who Wrote the Bible by Richard Elliott Friedman are some of my favorites. Research helps to exorcise the 'What if I'm wrong?', 'I'm gonna die at Armegeddon' thoughts. Secondly, seek out new friends (it works for people leaving the hall the same way it works for bible studies coming in). The world outside and the people in it are not nearly as bad as we've been taught. That's what got me through the initial hardship.

I still battle with anger due to the stance of my family or when I see JWs at the grocery or at a resturant, but time brings perspective and perspective brings healing.