Posts by peacefulpete

28

Help - how to reason from 'best out there'?

by Xander in

okay, another discussion with the brother.

he did mention i was a bad influence, but, feh, he still talks and listens a little, so i'm not too worried.. i've got him whittled down to - "if nothing else, at least this org tries to follow the bible the closest, every other religion has serious flaws.".

this is kind of a hard one to beat, as, in the end, what the society says is generally quite good and positive.

peacefulpete

Just a note..Actually the identification of the League of nations with the image in Revelation was first made by Southern Baptist Churches who likewise reasoned that any attempts to bring peace through human means was from the Devil. As to your question. The assertion that this religion is the best out there is the result o predetermined criteria. If your church teaches that the Bible says this or that then declaring your Church is unique and special BECAUSE it teaches this is to ignore the conviction and faith of all others. I remember being upset that people who left the org. being happy. I was sure they were lying. Happiness was the monopoly of JWs! When I read of people giving their lives for a cause they believed in, I asked myself how they got the courage (strenght) without Holy Spirit. I began to wonder if my experience was as unique as I was told it was. It ultimately then moved me to read other interpretation of prophecy. I found that every church, every nut had plausable spins on passages in Daniel and Revelation. It was then I realized how my own indoctrination had lead me to a very narrow place. My subsequent studies in the psycology of religious thinking and religious history were my final breakthroughs. I could now understand why I had thought the way I did and how this made me like most everyone else. I was now free to learn with a fresh perspective. I suppose this is like many others here. Perhaps your best answer then is to ask what helped you and offer it to him if he askes for it.

Edited by - peacefulpete on 31 January 2003 1:1:53

13

Examples in the Bible?

by happyout in

i am not in a position to do research on this, but maybe someone can help me out.

dubs don't celebrate birthdays because the two examples in the bible were negative, right?

well, each time jesus went into a "temple", didn't he have a negative experience?

peacefulpete

The story of Jesus taking the temple by storm and preaching there 3 days has some intereting implications. According to records on any given day around 20,000 Jewish attendants and 5-600 Roman soldiers were present to ensure such a thing never happened. In fact it had been attempted before. This place was huge and it was the largest institution in the country. It has been argued by those scholars who do not dismiss the account altogether, that this must be a vacuumed version of an armed assult on the temple. As crazy as this might sound it does explain some odd details. I will explain more if anyone wants.

5

Rahab the Dragon

by peacefulpete in

isaiah 51:9,10..job 26:12-13...psalm 89:9,10...isaiah 27:1...psalm 74:13,14...psalm 77:16 and possibly other verses refer to a sea monster who is vanquished (split in two)by yahweh.

the contexts show application to creation and/or judgement of enemies.

i'm hoping this sparks a discussion.

peacefulpete

I have two more refernces that deal with this specific issue. THE BABYLONIAN GENESIS:THE STORY OF CREATION, by Alexander Heidel (1942 old but detailed) and FAMILIAR MYSTERIES by Shirley Lowry.(1982) Check abe.com I bet you can find these books cheap.

Edited by - peacefulpete on 31 January 2003 0:0:34

15

Three Reasons Why the 'Truth' Isn't True (#1)

by metatron in

reason number one:.

while i cannot prove herein that consciousness survives death of the .

body, i can point out a solid arguement that you must have some sort.

peacefulpete

I'm sorry for arguing, I did not know you weren't well Metatron.

30

crelution or evelation

by showme in

creation or evolution?

first as a boy i believed in creation because i heard a preacher say it was true.

then i thought "well, maybe my teacher is right because of fossils and the recorded facts".

peacefulpete

If I am going to be quoted don't end my statement in the middle of a thought. The reason I said science will never be able to remove the belief in God as the behind the scene orchestrator, is due to the nature of belief. It can't be killed because it is too slippery. Belief is not bound to rules of logic evidence or substance. If it needs to it simply slithers to a new home and grins back innocently.

30

crelution or evelation

by showme in

creation or evolution?

first as a boy i believed in creation because i heard a preacher say it was true.

then i thought "well, maybe my teacher is right because of fossils and the recorded facts".

peacefulpete

It is telling that any discussion of evolution vs. creation the believers retreat to a first cause arguement. This is of course because the present state of our science is as of yet unable to offer a detailed testable solution. into this void it is easy to "***insert God here***". As I said earier this is presently beyond the scope of science and in fact always will be. For any naturalistic solutions as to first cause that are yet to be revealed will not prevent the believer from suggesting the same as some here have suggested, that God used natural processes, such as evolution, in doing his will. God will then become less a miracle worker and more a foreman. The question was however not about first causes but about the biology of evolution.

4

when do you die?

by showme in

this is kind of a continuation.

in the thread "what happens to the dead".

rem & funky corrected me on a false belief.

peacefulpete

All biological life uses chemical/electrical systems. Crudely expressed, chemical reactions produce heat and energy for other chemical reactions. The movement of ions resulting from some of these reactions appear as electrical impulses. When the chemical processing stops the electrical energy stops. (death) Some more isolated systems in the body can maintain electrical activity longer than others when fuel sources (sugars etc.) are removed. This is why finger nails and hair follicules survive for a few days after brain death. Brain cells unfortunately, are extremely sensitive to loss of fuel, and begin the process of decay in minutes without fresh sugar and oxygen. O course, much of the chemical metabolizing is used in the building and repair of the body. This protein and fat of course slowly decays without the input of new energy from this chemical process. The stored chemical energy is utilized by other life forms who need our bodies chemicals to fuel their own systems. (bacteria, worms, daisies, etc) In this process of cellular decay and consumption heat is also released. This is why compost piles are warm. We of course are not aware of any of this beautiful recycling as our brain cells have long since ceased functioning. In other words we are dead. The idea of an outside impersonal electrial or spirit force that animates the body, such as is taught by the JWs, was popular before science understood the body's chemistry. The Frankenstein story reflected this belief at the time it was written.

Edited by - peacefulpete on 30 January 2003 12:55:34

Edited by - peacefulpete on 30 January 2003 16:4:0

15

Three Reasons Why the 'Truth' Isn't True (#1)

by metatron in

reason number one:.

while i cannot prove herein that consciousness survives death of the .

body, i can point out a solid arguement that you must have some sort.

peacefulpete

Genetic engineering of the past 25 years should make the error of any "Ghost in the Machine" foolishness all too obvious. The foods you eat likely are the product of gene splicing. Corn in the U.S. has benefitted especially from this science. Stem cell research has largely enlightened us to how and when celllar division and specialization occurs. Some reading is in order Metatron. At least the newspaper. If you feel wonder at how it all works, thats good it should stir feels of awe. Life is amazing and this should move us to understand and cherish it.

Edited by - peacefulpete on 30 January 2003 13:0:49

30

crelution or evelation

by showme in

creation or evolution?

first as a boy i believed in creation because i heard a preacher say it was true.

then i thought "well, maybe my teacher is right because of fossils and the recorded facts".

peacefulpete

Hitler was a believing Catholic, but this is irrelevent. Core ethics are genetically and socially formulated. Religion has merely assumed a role of protector of morality due to humans granting it that place. Yes I did say genetics. Nonhuman species display very selfless even altruistic behavior as well as selfish. This is exacly expected given the evolutionary adaptiveness (uefullness) of both. With humans, our intelligence has given us greater abilty to select behavioral appropriateness. This is in part automatic by virtue of our greater self awareness and farsightedness. It requires only fine tuning from social convention. Religion is not truly required to provide this constraint. Community standards may by communicated through entirely secular agencies. Unfortunately so long have superstition and myth been used to enforce ethics that most now see them inseparable. People who were once religious but have left for intellectual reasons often feel a period of angst, but then find themselvs in the process. They do not have to be locked away to protect the public. Secularly arrived at ethics in fact often are broader in scope and less discriminating in application.

5

Rahab the Dragon

by peacefulpete in

isaiah 51:9,10..job 26:12-13...psalm 89:9,10...isaiah 27:1...psalm 74:13,14...psalm 77:16 and possibly other verses refer to a sea monster who is vanquished (split in two)by yahweh.

the contexts show application to creation and/or judgement of enemies.

i'm hoping this sparks a discussion.

peacefulpete

onacruse...This particular thought is in a number of books but two I will recommend are Canaanite Myth and Hebrew Epic by Frank Moore Cross and a more recent book, Secret Origins of the Bible by Tim Callahan a modest man whom I had the pleasure of sharing dinner with last week. He and I disagree on some points but this book does address these and other issues of origins.