Posts by peacefulpete

408

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

peacefulpete

These were men personally trained by the apostles.

Did Polycarp Meet John the Apostle? • Richard Carrier Blogs

1

Pentecost Again

by peacefulpete in

it has been discussed on this forum many times how many gospel elements were sourced from the ot and related traditions and recast as typological 'fulfillments'.

the same is true of certain sections from acts.

i recently ran across an interesting section of the talmud that certainly seems a good candidate for the inspiration for pentecost scene in acts 2.. recall that the shavuot or pentecost festival was linked to the exodus story of the reception of the 10 commandments on mt sinai.

peacefulpete

It has been discussed on this forum many times how many Gospel elements were sourced from the OT and related traditions and recast as typological 'fulfillments'. The same is true of certain sections from Acts.

I recently ran across an interesting section of the Talmud that certainly seems a good candidate for the inspiration for Pentecost scene in Acts 2.

Recall that the Shavuot or Pentecost festival was linked to the Exodus story of the reception of the 10 Commandments on Mt Sinai. The story naturally had inspired extensive midrashic commentary including the tradition below:

“The Lord said to Aaron: Go into the wilderness to meet Moses” – that is what is written: “God thunders marvelously with His voice” (Job 37:5). What is “thunders”? When the Holy One, blessed be He gave the Torah at Sinai, He displayed His voice to Israel with miracles and wonders. How so? The Holy One blessed be He would speak, and the voice emerged and circulated throughout the world. ...“From the heavens, He sounded His voice to you to admonish you [and on the earth He showed you His great fire]” ...
As it is stated: “The Lord came from Sinai and shone to them from Seir” (Deuteronomy 33:2), and it is written: “God came from the south” (Habakkuk 3:3), and it says: “All the people were seeing the voices” (Exodus 20:15). Voice is not written here, but “voices.” Rabbi Yoḥanan said: The voice would emerge and divide into seventy voices for seventy languages, so that all the nations could understand.

Shemot Rabbah 5:9
It is interesting, no? At some point prior to the mid second century (About the time of the writing of Acts) a Pentecost tradition circulated that associated God's fire, and miraculous translation of his voice into all the nations into all 70 of the world's languages.

24

The Creation Story of Genesis 1 in its literary context

by Leolaia in

genesis 1 , the priestly (p) account of creation, has often been compared with the enuma elish, the akkadian creation myth.

some have claimed that p is dependent on the latter, but this is highly improbable.

in terms of similarities, most note the parallel of marduk splitting the body of the sea-monster tiamat and creating the heavens and earth from it, and elohim's division of the thwm "watery deep" (hebrew cognate of akkadian tiamat) into the heavens, earth, and seas.

peacefulpete

Phizzy...I read and post now in an attempt to keep what few grey cells I have left. More and more it feels futile. I'd much appreciate a thread from you, sharing something you learned recently.

1

Pentecost Again

by peacefulpete in

it has been discussed on this forum many times how many gospel elements were sourced from the ot and related traditions and recast as typological 'fulfillments'.

the same is true of certain sections from acts.

i recently ran across an interesting section of the talmud that certainly seems a good candidate for the inspiration for pentecost scene in acts 2.. recall that the shavuot or pentecost festival was linked to the exodus story of the reception of the 10 commandments on mt sinai.

peacefulpete

It has been discussed on this forum many times how many Gospel elements were sourced from the OT and related traditions and recast as typological 'fulfillments'. The same is true of certain sections from Acts.

I recently ran across an interesting section of the Talmud that certainly seems a good candidate for the inspiration for Pentecost scene in Acts 2.

Recall that the Shavuot or Pentecost festival was linked to the Exodus story of the reception of the 10 Commandments on Mt Sinai. The story naturally had inspired extensive midrashic commentary including the tradition below:

“The Lord said to Aaron: Go into the wilderness to meet Moses” – that is what is written: “God thunders marvelously with His voice” (Job 37:5). What is “thunders”? When the Holy One, blessed be He gave the Torah at Sinai, He displayed His voice to Israel with miracles and wonders. How so? The Holy One blessed be He would speak, and the voice emerged and circulated throughout the world. ...“From the heavens, He sounded His voice to you to admonish you [and on the earth He showed you His great fire]” ... and it says: “All the people were seeing the voices” (Exodus 20:15). Voice is not written here, but “voices.” Rabbi Yoḥanan said: The voice would emerge and divide into seventy voices for seventy languages, so that all the nations could understand.

Shemot Rabbah 5:9

The '70 languages' of the '70 nations' was a common motif from the table of nations in Genesis, sons of El in Deut 32 and tower of Babel midrash.

I did condense the snippet from the Talmud as it gets wordy but essentially the 'voice of God' was seen whirling around (like wind) from every direction ('seen' implies fiery appearance) and eventually split into 70 languages to be received by every person in attendance on Mt. Sinai. So that the miracle was each person not only saw god's fiery voice but also and heard God's voice in their mother tongue. Recall Exodus says a great many nations peoples left Egypt with the Israelites. Midrash understood that to represent all nations. with each in this scene hearing the voice in their respective languages.

It is interesting, no? At some early point prior to Johanan bar Nappaha a Pentecost tradition circulated that associated God's fire, and miraculous translation of his voice into all 70 of the world's languages. Further links are that the Exodus scene ends with 'about 3000 were killed' (32:28) and Acts 2:41 in reverse typology says 'about 3000 were saved'.

The number 120 in Acts is similarly drawn from Jewish tradition; famously, 120 were required to form a quorum for city councils. The Great Sanhedrin (led by Ezra according to tradition, edited copies of the Torah for world distribution) was made up of 120. (12 X10 significant number implying completeness and governance). Lots of symbolism and typology.

24

The Creation Story of Genesis 1 in its literary context

by Leolaia in

genesis 1 , the priestly (p) account of creation, has often been compared with the enuma elish, the akkadian creation myth.

some have claimed that p is dependent on the latter, but this is highly improbable.

in terms of similarities, most note the parallel of marduk splitting the body of the sea-monster tiamat and creating the heavens and earth from it, and elohim's division of the thwm "watery deep" (hebrew cognate of akkadian tiamat) into the heavens, earth, and seas.

peacefulpete

Ran into another related comment in the Talmud. It confirms the Rabbinic interpretation of Genesis 1 as God organizing a primordial chaos. Shabbat 88a:6

Reish Lakish said: What is the meaning of that which is written: “And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day” (Genesis 1:31)? Why do I require the superfluous letter heh, the definite article, which does not appear on any of the other days? It teaches that the Holy One, Blessed be He, established a condition with the act of Creation, and said to them: If Israel accepts the Torah on the sixth day of Sivan, you will exist; and if they do not accept it, I will return you to the primordial state of chaos and disorder. Therefore, the earth was afraid until the Torah was given to Israel, lest it be returned to a state of chaos. Once the Jewish people accepted the Torah, the earth was calmed.

11

P Diddy list of names

by liam in

no wonder the left was furious when elon musk bought twitter.. someone leaked some of the names of the epstein files before they went public.

the complete list is still pending.

doesn't matter if it's the governing body, celebrities, politicians, theoretical physicist, cosmologist, the royal family, and more, are just ordinary humans who lust for sexual ..............!!!!!.

peacefulpete

I would not have elected Hunter Biden to the Presidency.

5

The Last will not be as bad you think

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/4sxc3gncea8?si=lrs70jrmduogxlwn.

hi guys today im considering the second part from david schafer's recent talk, where he goes through a few prophetic signs of the end and the most up to date understanding of the watchtower, i did cover on my last video the most up to date understanding on the "hailstone message" please go back and watch it and today im considering this very dangerous understanding the watchtower has developed recently that things can not get any worse.

of course, that's what happens when you isolate yourself as leadership from the daily struggle of your membership and you live carefree life in leafy upstate new york eirh everything paid for.

peacefulpete

Doomsayers prey upon the short sighted.

1

Pentecost with a Twist

by peacefulpete in

this is not going to be an in-depth research thread but a simple commentary.

most of us are aware the ot yahweh is at times referred to as a 'bull' or having horns of the auroch (wild bull).

the mighty heavenly cherubim (bulls) are said to pull his chariot.

peacefulpete

My last paragraph got deleted somehow, but in summation, Shavuot/Pentecost, rooted in ancient fertility/harvest festivals, had become adapted to celebrate the adoption of the Ten Commandments. That Festival involved a colorful joyful procession/parade with song and expressions of peace and well being. Gold and silver baskets filled with vegetal gifts. No reindeer, but a bull with golden horns and a crown.

Happy Holidays.

1

Pentecost with a Twist

by peacefulpete in

this is not going to be an in-depth research thread but a simple commentary.

most of us are aware the ot yahweh is at times referred to as a 'bull' or having horns of the auroch (wild bull).

the mighty heavenly cherubim (bulls) are said to pull his chariot.

peacefulpete

This is not going to be an in-depth research thread but a simple commentary. Most of us are aware the OT Yahweh is at times referred to as a 'bull' or having horns of the auroch (wild bull). The mighty heavenly Cherubim (bulls) are said to pull his chariot. His golden bulls held the great 'sea' basin in the Temple grounds. Iconography from the period illustrates Yahweh this way as well. The Calf/bull symbolism was a very common one in the ancient near east and beyond, and famously used by worshippers of gods from Egypt, Babylon, Cannan, and India. Naturally this wider, near universal usage of the powerful and important animal bothered some scribes and sects of Yahwism. Obviously not others.

Fast forward to the first century; the Festival of Weeks/Shavuot/Pentecost/Day of First Fruits was still celebrated in Jerusalem, as their ancient traditions had directed, 50 days after the Passover. The initial purpose of the festival was agrarian, it was a harvest festival thanking their God for the rain and fertility of the soil. But later the festival was also attached to the receiving of the 10 commandments on Mt. Sinai. That is significant given the way the festival was celebrated.

The NT doesn't detail how this was done, (neither to endorse nor condemn.) It does make clear that early Christians celebrated it. Famously of course the story in Acts where disciples of Jesus were gathered from far away to Jerusalem for the Pentecost celebration.

I hope you enjoy the following from the Mishna Bikkurim 3:

Those who lived near [Jerusalem] would bring fresh figs and grapes, while those who lived far away would bring dried figs and raisins. An ox would go in front of them, his horns bedecked with gold and with an olive-crown on its head. The flute would play before them until they would draw close to Jerusalem. When they drew close to Jerusalem they would send messengers in advance, and they would adorn their bikkurim (small bundles of wheat or other produce). The governors and chiefs and treasurers [of the Temple] would go out to greet them, and according to the rank of the entrants they would go forth. All the skilled artisans of Jerusalem would stand up before them and greet them saying, “Our brothers, men of such and such a place, we welcome you in peace. The flute would play before them, until they reached the Temple Mount. When they reached the Temple Mount even King Agrippas would take the basket and place it on his shoulder and walk as far as the Temple Court. When he got to the Temple Court, the Levites would sing the song: “I will extol You, O Lord, for You have raised me up, and You have not let my enemies rejoice over me”....The rich would bring their bikkurim in baskets overlaid with silver or gold, while the poor used wicker-baskets of peeled willow-branches, and the baskets and the bikkurim were given to the priest. Mishnah Bikkurim 3:8

It continues on, but the point is noticing the procession being led by a joyful flutist and bull/ox with golden horns and a crown. The crowds welcomed pilgrims with expressions of peace. The ancient symbol of the bull/ox had by the first century apparently taken a new, more anodyne significance. The event was a celebration of prosperity, peace and joy.

Rabbis have made commentaries upon this scene; I have read two. The one reinterpreted the bull as symbol of 'labor', his golden horns, 'riches' and the crown of olive trigs 'wisdom'. The other understood the procession to be a reenactment of the story from Exodus of the receiving of the Ten Commandments (and the golden calf element) but with the twist that the drama is merely played out 'as a drama' in a context of joyful worship. Make what you will of these commentaries.

20

I need to vent sorry!

by KerryKing in

i couldn't get back to sleep last night, something my father said a few weeks ago popped into my head.. we were talking about obtaining citizenship, he doesn't need it, but was contemplating what benefits it could get him now he's a pensioner.. background : i've been disfellowhipped for 15 years, i was born in, he is an elder, very much pimi, he was also born in.. i said to him how citizenship would be difficult for him as it would require him to swear allegiance to the state?.

oh he said, thats just a crowd of people together in a big room for the swearing in event, it would be easy to just mumble or say nothing, nobody would know.. this has quietly been eating away in my mind, why did it bother me?.

last night it hit me, when i was in my first year of school, age 5, i came out of school one day with a balloon with two little pencils attached, a gift from a classmate who's birthday it was, every child got one.

peacefulpete

Actually, the US government is more accommodating than the WT.

Chapter 3 - Oath of Allegiance Modifications and Waivers | USCIS