Posts by peacefulpete

407

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

peacefulpete

I see someone gave me a negative. Was something in the comment incorrect?

407

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

peacefulpete

Why dont Jews believe in a trinity? I would think that the voice of the people that wrote the old testament would carry some weight and be taken into consideration by christians?

JoJo....The Trinity doctrine was a later formulation, one that did in some ways offer a harmonization of various texts. It did not however actually represent any previous conception of God. As has been mentioned a number of times, scores of passages in the OT and many intertestamental works conceived their God as of an unapproachable infinitude that worked indirectly with humans and creation through the agency of an emanation or aspect/virtue of himself.

Philo of Alexanderia famously honed the idea, but it was centuries older in some form.

For instance Philo explains the Genesis 1:26 passage where God says Adam had become 'like one of us' as referring to his plurality of 'virtues' but are likened to 'beings'.

The expression, "one of us," indicates a plurality of beings; unless indeed we are to suppose, that God is conversing with his own virtues, which he employed as instruments, as it were, to create the universe and all that is in it...But all these things are similitudes, and forms, and images, among men; but among the gods they are prototypes, models, indications, and more manifest examples of things which are somewhat obscure; but the unborn and uncreated Father joins himself to no one, except with the intention of extending the honour of his virtues.

Now Philo was certainly reading into the text, but he did it through the lens of Hellenized Judaism. (In reality the 'Like one of us' was a reference to the divine council of gods, but that is another topic.)

As former JWs it is difficult to accept that we had overlooked the many examples in the OT that personified the Dibbur/Word/Logos or the Kabod/Glory of God or the Angel of Yahweh etc. but we did. Interestingly after the Christian expansion of these concepts through the embodiment of Jesus, the Rabbis generally condemned the notion of emanations (second power theology) as too polytheistic sounding, though rarely the concept reappears in the Talmud, mainly as the Memra/Word.

So no, the Jews did not have the Trinity doctrine, yet the Trinity doctrine was in fact an attempt to explain many aspects of Jewish writings.

37

Prepare to get Pelted by Symbolic Hailstones

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/idhmflud3p4?si=9xc4svrhxslduwvz.

so david schafer a member of the teaching commitee and a helper to the governing body has come out yesterday with a new video that goes through the king of the north, the hailstones message and other things in the wake of the possibility of a ww3 and especially now that tensions are escalating with russia so he is making quite a few end time arguments and i will be expanding on those one by one but today let's see what he has about the hailstones message of the end(video) so this is the paragraph in question, paragraph 14 from article 20 of the watchtower 2020 study edition: "sometime after the start of the great tribulation, “the kings of the entire inhabited earth” will form a coalition of nations.

(rev.

peacefulpete

.......Well, you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world

But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know that you can count me out

Don't you know it's gonna be
Alright
Alright
Alright

You say you got a real solution
Well, you know
We'd all love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well, you know
We're all doing what we can

But if you want money for people with minds that hate
All I can tell you is, brother, you have to wait.......

39

I've done it: Christmas Lights Outside

by StephaneLaliberte in

lets see if that causes a problem.

i've been inactive for a very long time now (like 10+ years), so, i don't expect to hear anything from it, but my parents are worried i'll get df.

lets see what happens.

peacefulpete

Notformer...Ok coffee then. Is a former Mormon compromising their individuality by enjoying a caramel latte? How silly the idea when seen from an objective, dispassionate perspective. Rattigan's charge of 'following the world' is just the product of cultish us/them inside/outside thinking.

39

I've done it: Christmas Lights Outside

by StephaneLaliberte in

lets see if that causes a problem.

i've been inactive for a very long time now (like 10+ years), so, i don't expect to hear anything from it, but my parents are worried i'll get df.

lets see what happens.

peacefulpete

lol....I suppose former Mormons are 'following the world' by drinking Pepsi or wearing regular underwear. Former Catholics are 'following the world' by wearing condoms. Or former Amish are slaves of the world by wearing colors.......

13

If you live in Canada, they are taking away your Guns, to send to Ukraine.

by liam in

history is full of examples of governments disarming their citizens , only to be brutally betrayed.

what follows is a litany of blood that happened after disarming citizens.

1911: turkey; citizens disarmed – 1.5 million armenians were slaughtered.

peacefulpete

If anyone wishes to see the gun models included in this new expanded list of assault style guns, read here:

Government of Canada extends list of prohibited assault-style firearms and moves forward on regulatory changes to strengthen gun control - Canada.ca

Take a moment and copy/paste and google a few examples from the list and ask if you believe these are safe for your community. The need to update the list is due in part to the constant modifications of previously banned models to circumvent the law. The criteria for the ban have not changed. It seems reasonable to relocate some of these weapons to the battlefield where they belong. I imagine the ammo issue is a big factor however.

407

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

peacefulpete

These were men personally trained by the apostles.

Did Polycarp Meet John the Apostle? • Richard Carrier Blogs

1

Pentecost Again

by peacefulpete in

it has been discussed on this forum many times how many gospel elements were sourced from the ot and related traditions and recast as typological 'fulfillments'.

the same is true of certain sections from acts.

i recently ran across an interesting section of the talmud that certainly seems a good candidate for the inspiration for pentecost scene in acts 2.. recall that the shavuot or pentecost festival was linked to the exodus story of the reception of the 10 commandments on mt sinai.

peacefulpete

It has been discussed on this forum many times how many Gospel elements were sourced from the OT and related traditions and recast as typological 'fulfillments'. The same is true of certain sections from Acts.

I recently ran across an interesting section of the Talmud that certainly seems a good candidate for the inspiration for Pentecost scene in Acts 2.

Recall that the Shavuot or Pentecost festival was linked to the Exodus story of the reception of the 10 Commandments on Mt Sinai. The story naturally had inspired extensive midrashic commentary including the tradition below:

“The Lord said to Aaron: Go into the wilderness to meet Moses” – that is what is written: “God thunders marvelously with His voice” (Job 37:5). What is “thunders”? When the Holy One, blessed be He gave the Torah at Sinai, He displayed His voice to Israel with miracles and wonders. How so? The Holy One blessed be He would speak, and the voice emerged and circulated throughout the world. ...“From the heavens, He sounded His voice to you to admonish you [and on the earth He showed you His great fire]” ...
As it is stated: “The Lord came from Sinai and shone to them from Seir” (Deuteronomy 33:2), and it is written: “God came from the south” (Habakkuk 3:3), and it says: “All the people were seeing the voices” (Exodus 20:15). Voice is not written here, but “voices.” Rabbi Yoḥanan said: The voice would emerge and divide into seventy voices for seventy languages, so that all the nations could understand.

Shemot Rabbah 5:9
It is interesting, no? At some point prior to the mid second century (About the time of the writing of Acts) a Pentecost tradition circulated that associated God's fire, and miraculous translation of his voice into all the nations into all 70 of the world's languages.

24

The Creation Story of Genesis 1 in its literary context

by Leolaia in

genesis 1 , the priestly (p) account of creation, has often been compared with the enuma elish, the akkadian creation myth.

some have claimed that p is dependent on the latter, but this is highly improbable.

in terms of similarities, most note the parallel of marduk splitting the body of the sea-monster tiamat and creating the heavens and earth from it, and elohim's division of the thwm "watery deep" (hebrew cognate of akkadian tiamat) into the heavens, earth, and seas.

peacefulpete

Phizzy...I read and post now in an attempt to keep what few grey cells I have left. More and more it feels futile. I'd much appreciate a thread from you, sharing something you learned recently.

1

Pentecost Again

by peacefulpete in

it has been discussed on this forum many times how many gospel elements were sourced from the ot and related traditions and recast as typological 'fulfillments'.

the same is true of certain sections from acts.

i recently ran across an interesting section of the talmud that certainly seems a good candidate for the inspiration for pentecost scene in acts 2.. recall that the shavuot or pentecost festival was linked to the exodus story of the reception of the 10 commandments on mt sinai.

peacefulpete

It has been discussed on this forum many times how many Gospel elements were sourced from the OT and related traditions and recast as typological 'fulfillments'. The same is true of certain sections from Acts.

I recently ran across an interesting section of the Talmud that certainly seems a good candidate for the inspiration for Pentecost scene in Acts 2.

Recall that the Shavuot or Pentecost festival was linked to the Exodus story of the reception of the 10 Commandments on Mt Sinai. The story naturally had inspired extensive midrashic commentary including the tradition below:

“The Lord said to Aaron: Go into the wilderness to meet Moses” – that is what is written: “God thunders marvelously with His voice” (Job 37:5). What is “thunders”? When the Holy One, blessed be He gave the Torah at Sinai, He displayed His voice to Israel with miracles and wonders. How so? The Holy One blessed be He would speak, and the voice emerged and circulated throughout the world. ...“From the heavens, He sounded His voice to you to admonish you [and on the earth He showed you His great fire]” ... and it says: “All the people were seeing the voices” (Exodus 20:15). Voice is not written here, but “voices.” Rabbi Yoḥanan said: The voice would emerge and divide into seventy voices for seventy languages, so that all the nations could understand.

Shemot Rabbah 5:9

The '70 languages' of the '70 nations' was a common motif from the table of nations in Genesis, sons of El in Deut 32 and tower of Babel midrash.

I did condense the snippet from the Talmud as it gets wordy but essentially the 'voice of God' was seen whirling around (like wind) from every direction ('seen' implies fiery appearance) and eventually split into 70 languages to be received by every person in attendance on Mt. Sinai. So that the miracle was each person not only saw god's fiery voice but also and heard God's voice in their mother tongue. Recall Exodus says a great many nations peoples left Egypt with the Israelites. Midrash understood that to represent all nations. with each in this scene hearing the voice in their respective languages.

It is interesting, no? At some early point prior to Johanan bar Nappaha a Pentecost tradition circulated that associated God's fire, and miraculous translation of his voice into all 70 of the world's languages. Further links are that the Exodus scene ends with 'about 3000 were killed' (32:28) and Acts 2:41 in reverse typology says 'about 3000 were saved'.

The number 120 in Acts is similarly drawn from Jewish tradition; famously, 120 were required to form a quorum for city councils. The Great Sanhedrin (led by Ezra according to tradition, edited copies of the Torah for world distribution) was made up of 120. (12 X10 significant number implying completeness and governance). Lots of symbolism and typology.