If trying to recreate the past, it's important to recognize a tendency to retroject modern perspectives upon the ancient. The elements in the Lord's Prayer (in all its versions) are perfectly consistent with the Kadish and Amidah. The Jewish community for whom Matthew was produced did not wish to make a break from the faith they knew. Kaleb's comments represent a welcomed humanist Reformed Judaism. While his/her overlay on the ancient texts is an admirable interpretation, it would be anachronistic to imagine the OT prayers or the ancient Rabbinic prayers for sun,rain,food, security and good health were psychological tools for self-help. It may well be it has that effect on some, while for others it brings feelings of abandonment and disappointment.
peacefulpete
JoinedPosts by peacefulpete
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Jesus the Maintenance Man
by peacefulpete ini posted on another thread what i thought was an interesting angle, seldom discussed regarding the role of god/logos in holding creation together and its maintenance.
most moderns think of the universe as a self-perpetuating machine, but ancients looked to the god/s to ensure order continued and fertility returned year after year.
we read, throughout the ot, of jews performing prescribed ritual and festivals to ensure god's blessing and providence.
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25
Jesus the Maintenance Man
by peacefulpete ini posted on another thread what i thought was an interesting angle, seldom discussed regarding the role of god/logos in holding creation together and its maintenance.
most moderns think of the universe as a self-perpetuating machine, but ancients looked to the god/s to ensure order continued and fertility returned year after year.
we read, throughout the ot, of jews performing prescribed ritual and festivals to ensure god's blessing and providence.
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peacefulpete
Shulchan_Arukh%2C_Orach_Chayim.119.1-2 with Connections
If one wanted to add in any of the middle blessings, something similar the blessing, one may add. How so? If one had a sick person, one asks for mercy for [that person] in the blessing of "Refa'einu" ["Heal us"]. If one needs a livelihood, one may ask for it in the "Blessing of the Years". And in [the blessing] of "Shomeya Tefilla" ["Who hears prayers"], one may ask for any of one's needs, for it includes all the requests. Gloss: And when one adds, one should begin the blessing and, after that, add, but one should not add and then begin the blessing (Tur 567). And according to Rabbeinu Yona, when one adds to the blessing something similar to that blessing, if one is adding it on behalf of all of Israel, one says it in plural language and not singular language, and one should only add at the end of the blessing and not the middle. And if one is asking specifically for one's own needs, for example: there is a sick person in one's home or one needs a livelihood, one can ask even in the middle of the blessing, as long as one does so in singular language and not plural language. And in the blessing of "Shomeya Tefilla" and similarly at the end of prayer, either right before "Yihyu l'ratzon" ["May it be acceptable before You"] or after it, one may ask in either singular language or plural language, whether it is specifically for one own needs or for of the public. יש מי שאומר שכשמוסיף בברכה לצורך יחיד לא יאריך: There is one [authority] who says that when one adds to a blessing for one's individual needs, one should not make it lengthy. -
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Is Jesus the Creator?
by Sea Breeze inthat's what the word says.
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colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..
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peacefulpete
Or aqwsed is God.
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25
Jesus the Maintenance Man
by peacefulpete ini posted on another thread what i thought was an interesting angle, seldom discussed regarding the role of god/logos in holding creation together and its maintenance.
most moderns think of the universe as a self-perpetuating machine, but ancients looked to the god/s to ensure order continued and fertility returned year after year.
we read, throughout the ot, of jews performing prescribed ritual and festivals to ensure god's blessing and providence.
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peacefulpete
Another interesting parallel is the Jesuine line:
"And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. And in praying use not vain repetitions, as the Gentiles do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking."
And : "One that makes his prayer a fixed task, his prayer is no supplication." (Mishnah Brachot 4:4).
"Be heedful in reciting of the Shema and when you pray make not your prayer a fixed form but plea for mercy." (Pirke Avot 2:13).
Interestingly, the Jesuine caution seems to parallel the intentionality if the Mishna.
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25
Jesus the Maintenance Man
by peacefulpete ini posted on another thread what i thought was an interesting angle, seldom discussed regarding the role of god/logos in holding creation together and its maintenance.
most moderns think of the universe as a self-perpetuating machine, but ancients looked to the god/s to ensure order continued and fertility returned year after year.
we read, throughout the ot, of jews performing prescribed ritual and festivals to ensure god's blessing and providence.
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405
Is Jesus the Creator?
by Sea Breeze inthat's what the word says.
.
colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..
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peacefulpete
Is it possible to program a bot to regurgitate from a fixed collection of arguments? 970 words 9 minutes after my comment.
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405
Is Jesus the Creator?
by Sea Breeze inthat's what the word says.
.
colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..
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peacefulpete
You have to be a bot.
I'll throw back that the Platonists themselves had a monotheistic concept of One. The ancient gods (much like Yahweh) were reinterpreted as essentially aspects of a single divine Principle, (Monism). There was no conflict with monotheism.
But seriously is it even humanly possible to read my comment and respond with 1000 words in less than 9 minutes?
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405
Is Jesus the Creator?
by Sea Breeze inthat's what the word says.
.
colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..
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peacefulpete
This hyper-analysis, overinterpretation of what clearly began as metaphor or OT parablelike narrative will never produce a universally satisfying conclusion. It can't because it is all detached from empirical evidence. We begin with the clever introduction of an agent into older theophanic narratives because editors understood theology slightly different. Then nearly immediately it is melded with Middle Platonic concepts of a demiurge as emanation of the Principle One. Then these emanations grew in detail and anthropomorphic descriptions to become angels, demons and Logos etc. Within a certain branch of Judaism many of these rose and congealed to become a separate entity.
Then either
1. a person came along that self-identified as this entity,
2.was posthumously associated with this entity or
3. the entity was later cast as a person through euhemerization/historicization.
Whichever of these three you see best fits the evidence, the concept and figure of Christ/Logos is the product of centuries of theological elaboration.
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405
Is Jesus the Creator?
by Sea Breeze inthat's what the word says.
.
colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..
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405
Is Jesus the Creator?
by Sea Breeze inthat's what the word says.
.
colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..
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peacefulpete
Hart himself would better fit the label of Christian Mystic. His God is arrived at through:
....infused contemplation, with real constancy of will and a patient openness to grace, suffering states of both dereliction and ecstasy with the equanimity of faith, hoping but not presuming, so as to find whether the spiritual journey, when followed in earnest, can disclose its own truthfulness…
Being in this state of mind, he is more open to the earliest character of Christianity. A rare sort of Christian today. I therefore understand his attraction to the more mystic Eastern Orthodox church, but technically he doesn't parrot their Christology either.