I was always pegged as a nonconformist even called an "apostate" when very active in the org. due to my inability to suppress my inquiring mind. I am now learning to refine that talent and focus on meaningful questions. Critical thinking skills can be learned and serve a person well. It is understood by achaeologists and historians that often the "facts" they collectively arrive at are tentative but defensible hypotheses. This is healthy albeit frustrating for those who crave certainty in every detail. It has taken me a few years to train my mind to exercise the freedom to question without the trappings of relativism, or discard logic altogether and slip into existential limbo.
peacefulpete
JoinedPosts by peacefulpete
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4
Proof is in the Pudding
by Billygoat inthis is a phrase that i remember my father saying a lot.
i was quite the rebellious teenager, leading a double-life, etc.
i remember "promising" to him that i would stop seeing my worldly boyfriends or pull my grades up.
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Did Jesus REALLY come from Nazareth?
by gumby inthe gospels tell us that jesus's home town was the 'city of nazareth' .
and in the sixth month the angel gabriel was sent from god unto a city of galilee, named nazareth, to a virgin espoused to a man whose name was joseph, of the house of david; and the virgins name was mary.. (luke1.26,27).
and all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.
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peacefulpete
I was reading yesterday about the Marcion (gnostic school of Christianity)version of the Gospel Luke, it does not have the Bethlehem birth story nor references to Jesus being from Nazareth. While it is controvertial a group of scholars have suggested that the Marcion books may have more resembled original editions of these legends that were "historized" by the Roman church. At any rate it is consistent with the view that the Nazareth reference was a later addition.
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Did Jesus REALLY come from Nazareth?
by gumby inthe gospels tell us that jesus's home town was the 'city of nazareth' .
and in the sixth month the angel gabriel was sent from god unto a city of galilee, named nazareth, to a virgin espoused to a man whose name was joseph, of the house of david; and the virgins name was mary.. (luke1.26,27).
and all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.
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peacefulpete
examples?
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son of David?
by peacefulpete induring the first 2 centuries bc and first century ad numerous would be messiahs and jewish militant leaders made claims to being of the tribe of judah and sons of david.
how honest were they?
according to the jewish encyclopedia any tribal claims were meaningless.
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peacefulpete
Please do "argue differently". It is good and healthy to reflect upon the fact that the overwhelming majority of people of the world have not been as impressed as fundementalists are about the Bible. Also why do very knowledgeable scholars generally have a secular view of the book? I am aware that the standard answer are "ignorance" or "heart condition" however these are not objective and rational arguements. Religion's power to cloud the judgement is readiliy admitted by Christians when discussing Hindus or Muslims yet the possibility that what is true for these others may in fact be true for themselves is too easily dismissed. If you truly desire to understand my position we can discuss matters camly and rationally. My "reason" for posting is simple. I wish to help those who want to begin life new and sane. The first step to recovery from a Bible Literalist church is to analyse the Bible on it's own merit without the exegetical/theological elaborrations that layer the text with unintended and unjustified credibility. You may benefit by searching here at this site first as many discussions of this nature have transpired here. You may also choose to review my posting history to learn who I am. I added to this comment from last night.
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Did Jesus REALLY come from Nazareth?
by gumby inthe gospels tell us that jesus's home town was the 'city of nazareth' .
and in the sixth month the angel gabriel was sent from god unto a city of galilee, named nazareth, to a virgin espoused to a man whose name was joseph, of the house of david; and the virgins name was mary.. (luke1.26,27).
and all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.
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peacefulpete
I can edit at work but not at home????
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Did Jesus REALLY come from Nazareth?
by gumby inthe gospels tell us that jesus's home town was the 'city of nazareth' .
and in the sixth month the angel gabriel was sent from god unto a city of galilee, named nazareth, to a virgin espoused to a man whose name was joseph, of the house of david; and the virgins name was mary.. (luke1.26,27).
and all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.
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peacefulpete
As I said I'm reserving zjudgement on there being a "village" at Nazareth at the opening of the first century but feel that the evidence now in declares a small group of farmers at best was at the site. This does not coinside with the Gospel description of a comunity with market and synagogue. No tradesman would have settled in such an impoverished place. But I am certainly open to the posiibility that some day more information will come to light. Be careful of sites such as offered here that are sponsored by church groups or apologists, their facts may be correct but the impression of certainty they give is often biased. Of course the same caution is merited at sites dedicated to Bible debunking. It is an interesting point that in the story noone anticipated the Savior as being from Nazareth. Very odd if in fact Isaiah's sprout verse was seen as a prophecy by the Jews. But very consistant with the aim of the Gospel writer to "find" OT references to Jesus to add a touch of antiquity and legitamacy and at the same time villify the Jewish leaders as a denegrated school of blind guides ignorant of the scriptures.
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How can 144,000 be a literal number?
by Pleasuredome inhow does the wts explain that the sum total of symbolic numbers equals a literal number?
rev 7:4-8
logic says that if the sum parts are symbolic, then the total can only be symbolic.
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peacefulpete
may you likewise find peace and rest in your mind. shalom
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son of David?
by peacefulpete induring the first 2 centuries bc and first century ad numerous would be messiahs and jewish militant leaders made claims to being of the tribe of judah and sons of david.
how honest were they?
according to the jewish encyclopedia any tribal claims were meaningless.
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peacefulpete
No I do not. If in fact Mary an Jesus were historical people, no I do not find any reason to believe that his birth was anything but natural. There is of course the very ancient rumor that his father was a Roman centurian but it is presently impossible to determine if he was even a historical charactor much less who his father was. Of course if you are proposing that Mary herself was like Jesus a fictional charactor who was created to serve as the vehicle mother to birth the mythological Savior. In that case I can say yes, I believe that myth states that Mary conceived without the aid of a man.
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Did Jesus REALLY come from Nazareth?
by gumby inthe gospels tell us that jesus's home town was the 'city of nazareth' .
and in the sixth month the angel gabriel was sent from god unto a city of galilee, named nazareth, to a virgin espoused to a man whose name was joseph, of the house of david; and the virgins name was mary.. (luke1.26,27).
and all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.
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peacefulpete
I know you were addressing Gumby but I wonder if you read the link Hooberus kindly provided? The first one posted in his comment has acknowledged the opinions expressed at the site you posted but proceeds to demonstrate problms with interpreting the facts with the Bible narrative. Actually to me it is not surprising that they may continue some dispute about dating of the finds at the Nazareth site. The village apparently did exist and may have more resembled the description in the Gospels by the time of writing and early redaction of the stories in the late first/ early second century. The prophecy claim however is merely poetic license.
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Did Jesus REALLY come from Nazareth?
by gumby inthe gospels tell us that jesus's home town was the 'city of nazareth' .
and in the sixth month the angel gabriel was sent from god unto a city of galilee, named nazareth, to a virgin espoused to a man whose name was joseph, of the house of david; and the virgins name was mary.. (luke1.26,27).
and all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.
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peacefulpete
Hooberus...long time. ....The sites you offered ostensibly as support for your position are very helpful for objective readers to analyse the facts and the sorry defense for historical christianity being offered. I especially like the arguement that a virgin birth was not a part of the savior mythologies because in some versians of the tales the mother had had previous children. Never mind the fact that the birth of the savior child results from a divinely performed sexless conception.(emaculate conception to Catholics). The site you offered even explained that "virgin births" did not always mean that the mother was never sexually active. She may have or may not have, that was not the point. The divine male parentage without human sperm was and is. The Skeptical Review has many of Till's thorough bashing of this garbeled double speak on the site you posted.