Posts by peacefulpete

6

Twisted Scriptures of the Watchtower - Part 2

by joe_from_kokomo in

friends: .

this one may not qualify as a "fully-twisted" scripture, in the sense that so many others are more twisted and more misused, and more transliterated.

but, i did run across a scripture that is incorrectly translated in the new world translation i felt it needs to be brought to light.

peacefulpete

Or how about the MUNISCOPALIANS? Garbagemen were clerical collars.

9

JW's - Zeal Without Knowledge?

by Trotafox in

hm-m-m-m-m-m. found this article.

the following is for those of us on the board who are ex-jw and still christian (i just know you ex-jw ex-christians are chompin' at the bit...i can feel it through my computer...okay, okay; you can comment).

anyway, i found this to be quite interesting.

peacefulpete

sorry about the typos, I still can't edit.

9

JW's - Zeal Without Knowledge?

by Trotafox in

hm-m-m-m-m-m. found this article.

the following is for those of us on the board who are ex-jw and still christian (i just know you ex-jw ex-christians are chompin' at the bit...i can feel it through my computer...okay, okay; you can comment).

anyway, i found this to be quite interesting.

peacefulpete

Since leaving I have found people form diverse religious backgrounds that are activly working for peace and environmental causes as well as local issues. Their zeal for these real matters seems at times indefatiguable. I question whether the 9 hours a month riding in a car measures up. This is especially true when you realize JWs don't give of themselves for charity and community issues or political causes for the good of their neighbor. The high profile nature of the proseletyzing has given the exagerated perseption of great zeal. One of my "students" was nearly "stumbled" when he learned that not all JWs had sold their belongings to pioneer! I was a pioneer and missionary for 15 years and PO to boot yet the the demands upon me were no more than those undertaken voluntarily by many of my new associates.

20

questions from readers

by peacefulpete in

for the past few years the questions from readers in the wt have been pathetic rehashes of old material, or just stupid newbie quetions answered in the pe book.

i know that they must be getting thouands of well thought out questions from sincere readers, yet none of these questions make the column.

i know that this is not surprising to many here.

peacefulpete

For the past few years the questions from readers in the WT have been pathetic rehashes of old material, or just stupid newbie quetions answered in the PE book. I know that they must be getting thouands of well thought out questions from sincere readers, yet none of these questions make the column. I know that this is not surprising to many here. My wife and I wrote clear and heartfelt questions, pleading for their help in preserving our faith. I even stipulated that if I received no response I would have to assume they knew my understanding was correct. Neither of s got any response. The local elders did not get notified of our request for help. Nothing. Since that time much has changed. (we actually sent the letters a year and a half apart as she only later had questions) Of course any time we had a question we were naively told to write the Society. Other Jws sarcastically suggested we were stupid to think that the Society responded to personal correspondence. This was a revelaton to me! I thought that questions from readers was just that. I now suspect that the guys in the writing dept. simply make them up to repeat some doctrine or behavior directives.

How many have written a question to the Society and received no response?

82

What is the WTS's motive?

by careful fader in

can anyone help me understand the motive of the wts?

i don't think it's money .

the gb lives at bethel in a pretty low standard of living.

peacefulpete

Earnest..sorry but the message board is not working for me. I mistyped Steven Pinker. His book "The Blank Slate: the modern denial of human nature" is fantastic. Written in 2002 it is up to date and timely. I have read a few books on evolutionary psychology and this book takes the best of what this study has learned and explains what this means and doesn't mean for society. Very accurate, positive and encouraging.

172

Jesus was gay - says academic

by ISP in

jesus was gay - says academic

jesus was gay and so were at least three of his 12 disciples, according to an australian academic.. .

dr rollan mccleary said jesus's astrological chart, clues in the scriptures and biblical translations, all played a part in his conclusions.. in a forthcoming book, he attempts to present st john's gospel in a new light to back up his claims, reports the herald sun.. dr rollan mccleary, a university of queensland phd graduate who now lives in melbourne, has just been awarded his doctorate for a thesis on gay spirituality.. an anglican and a qualified reader of astrological charts, dr mccleary said the planet uranus figured prominently in jesus's astrological chart, as it did with many gays..

peacefulpete

Learn what the historical/critical method is. Go to the "Journal of higher critism" site and read an article about the method posted by a member of the Jesus Seminar.(yes he too believes in a historical Jesus, just not the one known to you). use the "articles you can read now" link and the article is listed about 2/3rds down.

172

Jesus was gay - says academic

by ISP in

jesus was gay - says academic

jesus was gay and so were at least three of his 12 disciples, according to an australian academic.. .

dr rollan mccleary said jesus's astrological chart, clues in the scriptures and biblical translations, all played a part in his conclusions.. in a forthcoming book, he attempts to present st john's gospel in a new light to back up his claims, reports the herald sun.. dr rollan mccleary, a university of queensland phd graduate who now lives in melbourne, has just been awarded his doctorate for a thesis on gay spirituality.. an anglican and a qualified reader of astrological charts, dr mccleary said the planet uranus figured prominently in jesus's astrological chart, as it did with many gays..

peacefulpete

hooberus..or should I say hubris, did you even read the Lowder article you linked? It well discusses the error of apologists claims of independent witnesses to a historical Jesus. His conclusion at the end is admittedly based upon his "mind" on the matter not a dogmatic expression of fact. Nor could his statements in context be taken to imply acceptance of the Gospels as history nor Josephus's words as authentic as extant. He has formed a model that allows for a historical Jesus (as Price does btw) yet admits the evidence is paultry and tentative. It disgusts me that this site of yours uses the same methods as the WT does and pull and stretch statements out of context and present them as unguarded moments of frankness. Writers such as Gould, Sagan and Dawkins have similarly been grossly misrepresented thru this method of cut and paste quotations. They have often publically denounced this twisted insertion of their words into Christian apologetics. Before you respond to my previous or present comments go and read in it's entirety the article you linked. Then we can discuss the specifics of THAT article if you wish.

172

Jesus was gay - says academic

by ISP in

jesus was gay - says academic

jesus was gay and so were at least three of his 12 disciples, according to an australian academic.. .

dr rollan mccleary said jesus's astrological chart, clues in the scriptures and biblical translations, all played a part in his conclusions.. in a forthcoming book, he attempts to present st john's gospel in a new light to back up his claims, reports the herald sun.. dr rollan mccleary, a university of queensland phd graduate who now lives in melbourne, has just been awarded his doctorate for a thesis on gay spirituality.. an anglican and a qualified reader of astrological charts, dr mccleary said the planet uranus figured prominently in jesus's astrological chart, as it did with many gays..

peacefulpete

I do not believe ISP or any of us here believe that there were not those who called themselves followers of jesus befor the second century. What has been stated is that the gospels and possibly the epistles did not reach their basic form until the second century. The Taliban have served as a reminder of the power of religious fanaticism mixed with politics. A determined effort to remove from Afganistan anything that reminded the people of their religious heritage (Buddhist/Christian/Persian)resulted in mass book burnings and destruction of art and music. The Catholic powers of the 3-12th centuries did all that they could to do the same. Pagan temples and writings were destroyed or altered or assimilated (statues of sun gods placed in churches and renamed Jesus). Historical documents were amended with the emperor's approval or direction. Tertullian is suspected of much alterring of the records. That anything survived for us today to reconstruct the past is quite amazing and a testament to pagan zeal for their faith. Aside from this possibilty, why does the repeating of the Christian story a hundred or more years later by a nonchristian be seen as evidence of the historicity of these events? If these are not christian interpolations they at best suggest that these writers unquestioningly believed the version of the past preached by Christians, it does not suggest they actually happened as the Christians were claiming. Think about how long 100 years is. How about 3oo, 400 years yet often you hear about proof that jesus was killed being this many years distanced from the event. The "Chrestus" thing is rather stetching the limits of proof. The word means "freed slave" and was used by others of the time without any Christian reference. I myself do not feel the issue of a historical jesus will be settled soon, but pieces of evidene are coming in like never before. I will not debate your tektoniks site. I have read them and felt sickeed by the reviews of books when the reviewer obviousy did not even read more than the dust jacket. If you wish to learn about these matters go to the skeptic web sites ( skeptical review for example) and read firsthand. Then you may see the flaw in the apologist methodolgy which stands in direct contrast to the scientific Historical/critical method.

20

He died on a cross

by ClassAvenger in

do any of you ex-jehovah witnesses still believe that jesus died on a stake, or a cross?

peacefulpete

Actually it is true that the Romans used a single pole at times, yet the evidence is that by the time that the gospels were written the cross shape was in use. The one being executed carried the cross beam to the site where it was attatched to the pole already in the ground. The issue for Rutherford was the pagan and subsequent Catholic use of the cross in their symbolism. He was right to see a connection (altho hardly first) he was wrong to ignore the research of his day that revealed the pagan elements in most all of Christianity. It is not insignificant that the christian god/savior was also said to have died upon a tree in contradiction of the statements that say cross. This suggests to me that history was not being reported but docetic (neat word meaning christianity without requiring a real body for Jesus) symbolism. The tree symbolically represented life in numerous ancients cults. A number of other gods were hung upon a tree in mythology.

172

Jesus was gay - says academic

by ISP in

jesus was gay - says academic

jesus was gay and so were at least three of his 12 disciples, according to an australian academic.. .

dr rollan mccleary said jesus's astrological chart, clues in the scriptures and biblical translations, all played a part in his conclusions.. in a forthcoming book, he attempts to present st john's gospel in a new light to back up his claims, reports the herald sun.. dr rollan mccleary, a university of queensland phd graduate who now lives in melbourne, has just been awarded his doctorate for a thesis on gay spirituality.. an anglican and a qualified reader of astrological charts, dr mccleary said the planet uranus figured prominently in jesus's astrological chart, as it did with many gays..

peacefulpete

This kind of exchange is fruitless. Anyone can go to these websites themselves and red the arguements for themselves. All I want to say about hooberus' post earlier about suggesting that Price was dishonest or ignorant about the Apollonius stoy and it's date of writing, is that it really illustrates how blindly he reads the tektonik site and accepts their spin on matters without asking if Price's comment may have been said for a good reason. The Apollonius (4 BC-?) story written a hundred years or so after his death is of course filled wth myth and legend, that is the point!! He (if historical) was elevated to godship a few short years ater his death. The legends about healing, resurrections etc. were part of the genere of deities of those centuries. The same stories were said about Socrates and dozens of others. This illustrates the prevalence of these types of legends. The jesus story as nothing to differentiate it from these others other than it's Jewish flavor. And this the point Price was making.