Posts by peacefulpete

10

Spiritism

by Beans in

.

more light from the source!.

http://www.quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/spiritism.htm.

Didn't one of the quotes say "just HOW the angels communicate to the agents on earth is not for us to ask." There is no way of denying that the official postion is that they do claim to have some mysterious yet powerful connection to the spirit world, and this is the directing force behind the doctrine and policy making. Most anyone would call that a claim of "inspiration". If this is not scary and cultlike it is at least delusional.

16

JW'S and God's Justice?

by micheal in

apr 10, 2003

especiallly considering all the great people that will never get a chance to recieve "a witness" that will, again according to them, be eternally destroyed at armageddon.

and i refuse to believe that hearing " do you want the latest wt and awake mags?

peacefulpete

I used to ponder this very question when I was a teen. "of all the people born in the world what are the odds that I was born into the right religion?" I used to say. My parents responded with the comment, "Even if you were not raised a witness you would have been contacted and became one because Jehovah sees a good heart in you." Of course this was nothing other than predestination disguised as Divine love and wisdom. The question of odds I know realize was a misuse of statisical probability as any unique occurance is statistically mindboggling, but the answer they gave haunted me even worse than my initial question. What made me more "good" or desirable than the 99.9% of the world? I certainly did not feel that good.

The real answers took many years to unravel. Cult investment in large part results from the initiate being convinced they are "special" among men. They are blessed, favored, gifted, etc. This goes a long way tward suppressing doubts and furthurs the emotional isolation from society outside the cult/group.

This why those who defy the directive to limit association with unbelievers so often slack off in their JW duties or develop doubts. The specialness erodes as we get to understand people are people in and out the group.

A verse that deeply impressed and afected me was Romans 2:15-16, especially 16. This verse is never explained by JWs as it suggests that God would favorably judge (excuse) those who never heard the "good news" so they would surive Armagedon if they were good and conscientious people. I obessed about that verse for years seeing how it contradicted other passages. The application the WT made of verse 15 was also misleading as it ignored thge context that made clear the "accusing and excusing" was not merely pains of concience as they asserted, but an actual judgement by god. This made cracks in my perfect world. My subsequent research has provided the answers I needed about Bible history and science that enabled me to finally break free from the fundementalist JW programming that was intoxicating me. But it all started with the question you asked in your title.

60

The word of God makes it clear to us that abortion is not a sin.

by Abaddon in

not until god gave man his first breath did he become a living soul.

the verses in genesis are not the only verses in the bible to make this clear.

abortion is not a sin, though blasphemy and idolatry are.

peacefulpete

A thought that should be said, tho I do not feel the use of devices or hormones to prevent implantation constitute a moral issue, I must say that nature does not provide the determining arguements for this to be the case. I believe that morality can not be shaped by amoral natural processes. There is a great difference

between "is" and "ought to be". The fact that half of children died by disease a hundred years ago did not justify infanticide. Nor did it even temper our outrage tward those guilty of it.

We are simply faced with a complex matter that

requires a humane and scientifically well informed consensus. Ultimately we can look neither to the heavens nor

to nature for direction about purely human issues.

60

The word of God makes it clear to us that abortion is not a sin.

by Abaddon in

not until god gave man his first breath did he become a living soul.

the verses in genesis are not the only verses in the bible to make this clear.

abortion is not a sin, though blasphemy and idolatry are.

peacefulpete

I as well agree about the preventing of implantation not constituting a moral isse. I thought I would simply muddy the crystal clear water for those who feel that a new person was formed at the moment of conception. Your reasoning about the implications for a god that would design a system that enaged in genocide was good reasoning for those who frame their opinions upon a perceived mind of god.

5

Who set up a new church when the Jews lost their favor?

by FairGame in

can anyone answer this for me?

this is a matter of being able to talk to my family or not.

what i come up sith so far, in the book of matthew, is that jesus handed over power to peter.

peacefulpete

"There can be little doubt?..."

27

Do JW wedding vows provide a "way out"?

by Gopher in

as many of you know, i just got married for a second time about two weeks ago.

i noticed a sharp distinction in the marriage vows as read to us by a justice of the peace when compared to the vows written by the wt society for jw weddings.. the traditional vow, as read by the jop, included the phrase "i take (insert name), (insert good and bad circumstances), until death do us part".. the jw vow says something to this effect: "i take (insert name), (insert other stuff), as long as we both shall live together under (or "according to") god's marital arrangement.".

the traditional vow sounds quite permanent to me.

peacefulpete

No..This constitutes a free ticket to those who are wiling to claim that this is the case in their home. Of course the elders wpould expect to have seen or heard some pattern of apostate behavior or that the unbeliever was otherwise evidentally antagonistic to the JWs. But ultimately this allowance is not contested if the "victum" claims to be in "spiritual" danger. Remember tho that this does not provide grounds for a divorce in their eyes so that is another matter that is dealt with when the left that was left seeks a new relationship

29

Baptism Nullification- will it work for you?

by joe_from_kokomo in

dear friends: .

however, it appears to have been effective, as i have not heard a peep from anyone at bethel or the local elders either.

from our point of view, we are now free of the entrapments of the watchtower cult, and i feel that it is important to share this with those of you who may need an alternative to the two "official" methods of leaving: disfellowshipping or disassociation.

peacefulpete

Maverik...I understood your English just fine. I just know what you said made no sense. They anounced you as DA, that means they did not change your status to an unbaptized publisher as you contend. That may have been the way it was explained to you to shut you up but ipso facto you were DF'd. The main objective for most of us as well as the original poster is to avoid the resultant shunning not to get some satisfaction derived by sticking it to the Elders as seems to be your motive.

BTW..I was unable to post for a day or so. When I attempted to there was no header or footer. An odd popup box appeared when I moved the cursor to the top of the page. It gave the usual options of reply, edit,etc. It allowed me to edit another posters text without any security requirements. I did not do it but I could have..This needs to be investigated by you folks who know about these things.

5

Who set up a new church when the Jews lost their favor?

by FairGame in

can anyone answer this for me?

this is a matter of being able to talk to my family or not.

what i come up sith so far, in the book of matthew, is that jesus handed over power to peter.

peacefulpete

A study of the interpolations and revisions of the NT will answer many of the odd wording or difficult passages. Matt 16:18-19 is a ine example of a very late interpolation (addition). It is felt by most scholars that Mark 3:16 represents a "more" original reading of this passage. There it has Jesus addressing Peter as Kefa (Kefas greek) Rock. According to the Codex Strassburg the name Kefa was given because he received his 'calling" while standing upon a Kefa (stone)that Ezekiel had once prophesied from. By the late 3rd and early 4th century their were numerous sects and self appointed authorities representing what came to be called Christianity. The Roman Catholic church was estabishing it's supremacy thru politics and intrigue. A late Catholic interpolator simply slipped in the Matt words "And on this Rock(kefas) I'm going to establish my church, ....I am going to give you the keys of the kingdom." This mated well with a popular fictional tale about Peter teaching in Rome. These words were subsequntly hailed as final proof that the Roman Curch and it's Popes as alledged successors to Peter were the True Church. 2 of Peters fictional "successors" (Linus and Anacletus)were even created to make the new "history" seem less improbable that Pope Siricius could be Peters heir. The Bible is full of alterations and revisions.

27

Do JW wedding vows provide a "way out"?

by Gopher in

as many of you know, i just got married for a second time about two weeks ago.

i noticed a sharp distinction in the marriage vows as read to us by a justice of the peace when compared to the vows written by the wt society for jw weddings.. the traditional vow, as read by the jop, included the phrase "i take (insert name), (insert good and bad circumstances), until death do us part".. the jw vow says something to this effect: "i take (insert name), (insert other stuff), as long as we both shall live together under (or "according to") god's marital arrangement.".

the traditional vow sounds quite permanent to me.

peacefulpete

On a serious note, the spiritual endangerment grounds for separation is not grounds for divorce. The divorce ensues when the mates leaves and prays the other finds an "adulterous" lover so as to "free" them to remarry. Physical abuse can likewise be pursued, since the 80's, as grounds to separate. The technical difference between separation and divorce is the source of great emotional strain as many have left their mates on gounds of endangerment only to be unable to "prove" the estranged mate's adultery and thereby have "gounds for divorce". I know a woman who was a single mom for 15years or so wanting to marry a man she loved but unable to show public affection for because her estranged husband's whereabouts were unknown. Al we could do is tell her Jehovah was blessing her "faithfulness". Terrible things happen when people take control of other's lives by making policies that ignore reality.

22

The Bible Code

by m0nk3y in

i was in a book store today and there were a couple of books entitled somthing like "the bible code" .

the idea goes that the bible is written a certain code that when decoded reveals prophcies about things like the twin towers and that kind of thing.

heres a few links to explain more.

peacefulpete

The Bible "code" is an ancient mystic delusion. The Kabala was based upon the belief that the sum of knowledge was hidden in the Torah. Naturally this lead to some doctoring of the wording to "confirm" this hypothesis. Intersetingly the WT does seem to endorse the acrostic idea to some extent. The book of Esther was a fable that was popularized due to it's endorsment of the Persian festival of Purim by Jews. It was not regarded as inspired by many Jews. Apart from the numerous ridiculous historical and textual impossibilities, one common objection to even viewing it as a religious work is the absence of references to Yhwh or just "God" for that matter. In an effort to support the inclusion of it in the OT, the WT in the SI book mentions that acrostically the name YHWH appears in the text 4 times. The statisical probabilty of these comon letters and the inconsistent method of calcuation for these 4 occurences is enough for me to dimiss it as coincidence, however it is not impossible that a Jewish priest who was fond of gemetria (numerology/acrostics) worked the text a bit to lend support for his favorite story.