pale.emperor

Joined

• started 328 topics
• posted 2,699 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by pale.emperor

• 
  10

  Jehovah’s Witnesses and Child Sex Abuse – A Brief Handbook for Attorneys

  by Watchtower-Free in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  free download.

  https://jwvictims.org/jehovahs-witnesses-and-child-sex-abuse-a-brief-handbook-for-attorneys/ .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  pale.emperor

  FANTASTIC. Into my ever growing folder it goes.
  
• 
  8

  Disfellowshipping - What It's Supposed To Be

  by pale.emperor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  first of all, the wt tell this lie to the rank and file:.

  two factors—which must coincide—result in the disfellowshipping of one of jehovah’s witnesses.

  first, a baptized witness commits a serious sin.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  pale.emperor

  First of all, the WT tell this lie to the rank and file:

  Two factors—which must coincide—result in the disfellowshipping of one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. First, a baptized Witness commits a serious sin. Second, he does not repent of his sin. http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2015287#h=5
  

  Now, of course WE know that's not true. My wife for example when she was DF'd a few years ago was genuinely repentant. She confessed immediately after doing what she did. She was distraught, downtrodden and ashamed. She was DF anyway. But of course the rank and file think a person is disfellowshipped because they obviously wernt repentant for what they did.

  Disfellowshipping may bring the wrongdoer to his senses. Jesus once spoke of a young man who left his father’s home and squandered his inheritance on a life of debauchery. The prodigal son learned the hard way that life outside his father’s home was empty and heartless. The son finally came to his senses, repented, and took the initiative to return to his family. (Luke 15:11-24) Jesus’ description of the loving father who rejoiced at his son’s change of heart helps us understand Jehovah’s feelings. “I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that someone wicked changes his way and keeps living,” he assures us.—Ezek. 33:11. http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2015287#h=19
  

  Tell me. When the prodigal son returned. How long did he have to wait before his father embraced him back? A year? Two years? No, he welcomed him back immediately. Those who stop their sinful course and repent should be welcomed back right away.
  

  I understand the need to keep the congregation clean. Remember, Paul said "let him be like a man of the nations". Tell me, how to witnesses treat their non witness relatives or neighbors? Sure, they dont have much to do with them, but do they shun them??? No. They just have limited contact. THATS how a DF person should be treated.

  They shouldn't be emotionally blackmailed to come back so they can get their parents back, or the children back, or their siblings back.

  1 Corinthians 5:11 - But now I am writing you to stop keeping company*+ with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral* or a greedy person+ or an idolater or a reviler* or a drunkard+ or an extortioner,+ not even eating with such a man.

  The key phrase here is "anyone called a brother". If someone leaves, they're not calling themselves a brother. And if someone was "an idolater or a reviler* or a drunkard+ or an extortioner" then surely we wouldnt NEED to be told not to hang around with them. We wouldn't want to anyway.

  There are other reproofs that would be beneficial for someone who has strayed but genuinely wants to serve God. Shunning them is so the opposite of Christianity its unreal.
  
• 
  22

  How To Spot A Cult - This is what started woke me up!!

  by pale.emperor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is the article that woke me up.

  i felt sick after reading it.

  then sad.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  pale.emperor

  I remember an elder saying this regarding apostates:

  Apostates are only interested in making you leave Jehovah. They don't say "your religion is rubbish, THIS is the truth over here..." no, they just say "your religion is rubbish" and destroy it.

  Now, hold on a second. If my apartment was on fire. My first reaction would be to GET OUT. I wouldn't be too concerned WHERE, i'd just know the first thing is to get out.

  But hey, what do we know? We're all "mentally diseased" remember. (WT 2011, 7/15pp 15-19)
  
• 
  22

  How To Spot A Cult - This is what started woke me up!!

  by pale.emperor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is the article that woke me up.

  i felt sick after reading it.

  then sad.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  pale.emperor

  I used to think ALL of those sites warning about cults were targeting JW's. It's only when i left that i realised they're not targeting any specific cult - it just so happens that the WT org ticks all the boxes!

  Check out this other one. http://www.esama.ca/warning-signs-that-you-are-in-a-cult

  Im gonna be honest here, reading the last paragraph made me well up:
  

  Cults will always divide the family unit instead of bringing them together. They will make you choose between God and their church. They use scriptures such as: "Jesus came to bring a sword, not peace" or "one must give up brothers, sisters, wife, and house for the kingdom and be a true follower". Children often become the most hurt because of strict rules enforced on them. They lose their childhood and are deeply affected, being unable to adjust later on in life. Religious systems that are not balanced can be socially and psychologically disastrous for innocent children.
  
• 
  11

  Speculation about GT

  by aintenoughwiskey in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what were/are your speculations about the great tribulation.

  unless those days were cut short no flesh would be saved?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  pale.emperor

  I strongly believed that i would go to prison one day for being a JW, maybe even a concentration camp in the future. And i couldn't wait! The opportunity to be persecuted in the name of Jah and prove my worthiness. But of course looking back i can see that it was a way of me saying "i dont feel good enough i'll never be good enough. Maybe if i die a horrible death through starvation, torture and genocide they'll see maybe i am good enough".

  And after all that? Maybe... just maybe... you'd get through to the new system. But dont count on it.
  
• 
  22

  How To Spot A Cult - This is what started woke me up!!

  by pale.emperor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is the article that woke me up.

  i felt sick after reading it.

  then sad.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  pale.emperor

  Link here: https://culteducation.com/warningsigns.html
  
• 
  22

  How To Spot A Cult - This is what started woke me up!!

  by pale.emperor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is the article that woke me up.

  i felt sick after reading it.

  then sad.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  pale.emperor

  This is the article that woke me up. I felt sick after reading it. Then sad. Then angry. Then all of those things. I'm still trying to adjust to a normal lifestyle and normal thinking.

  Replace the words group/leader with "organization" and it's glaringly obvious we were all duped into a cult.
  

  
  

  By Rick Ross, Expert Consultant and Intervention Specialist

  Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.

  1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.
  2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
  3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.
  4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
  5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
  6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.
  7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.
  8. Followers feel they can never be "good enough".
  9. The group/leader is always right.
  10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

  Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.

  1. Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.
  2. Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.
  3. Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".
  4. Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.
  5. Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.
  6. Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.
  7. A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.
  8. Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.
  9. Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.
  10. Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.

  Ten signs of a safe group/leader.

  1. A safe group/leader will answer your questions without becoming judgmental and punitive.
  2. A safe group/leader will disclose information such as finances and often offer an independently audited financial statement regarding budget and expenses. Safe groups and leaders will tell you more than you want to know.
  3. A safe group/leader is often democratic, sharing decision making and encouraging accountability and oversight.
  4. A safe group/leader may have disgruntled former followers, but will not vilify, excommunicate and forbid others from associating with them.
  5. A safe group/leader will not have a paper trail of overwhelmingly negative records, books, articles and statements about them.
  6. A safe group/leader will encourage family communication, community interaction and existing friendships and not feel threatened.
  7. A safe group/leader will recognize reasonable boundaries and limitations when dealing with others.
  8. A safe group/leader will encourage critical thinking, individual autonomy and feelings of self-esteem.
  9. A safe group/leader will admit failings and mistakes and accept constructive criticism and advice.
  10. A safe group/leader will not be the only source of knowledge and learning excluding everyone else, but value dialogue and the free exchange of ideas.
• 
  13

  Fading 2.0

  by pale.emperor in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  the following examples are true.

  witnessed by myself and many many other jw's of my age generation.. they're examples of a successful fade, and a failed fade and what we can learn from them.. the successful fade.

  sister c - she gets baptized at 19yo.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  pale.emperor

  LOL I was so Brother M .....

  Ha, and in case you hadn't guessed yet, brother M is me.
  
• 
  13

  Fading 2.0

  by pale.emperor in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  the following examples are true.

  witnessed by myself and many many other jw's of my age generation.. they're examples of a successful fade, and a failed fade and what we can learn from them.. the successful fade.

  sister c - she gets baptized at 19yo.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  pale.emperor

  The following examples are true. Witnessed by myself and many many other JW's of my age generation.

  They're examples of a successful fade, and a failed fade and what we can learn from them.

  THE SUCCESSFUL FADE

  SISTER C - She gets baptized at 19yo. Her dad is an elder, a very popular and well loved elder. Their family is wealthy and they're at the heart of the congregation. She's popular, attractive, gets invited to lots of parties and well liked.

  One day her dad comes off as a an elder. A week later he's disfellowshipped. Then he leaves his family and lives with another woman (the same age as his daughter).

  Naturally this is a hard blow to the family. Distraught, and under a lot of stress she stops going to the meetings. The odd occasion where she does turn up she puts up a brave face but is visibly upset at the whole thing. Then she just stops going.

  2 months later she's living with a boy. 2 years later she marries him. During this, and to this day, she's still in good association with active witnesses. Still get's invited to witness parties, she even turns up to the convention with her husband and little child even though they dont believe it and make no pretense about it.

  WHAT WE LEARN FROM THIS - if you're looking to leave, capitalize on any bad experience you, or your family, goes through. You're "depressed", "distraught" etc and people will be sympathetic.

  THE FAILED FADE

  BROTHER M - Brother M is very well read in matters of religion. He sincerely believed the WT for many years but the more he thinks about certain things they just dont add up. He decides it's not the truth and wants to leave. Unfortunately, he is married to a believer and his entire family are JW.

  He tells his wife and family and fellow witnesses he trusts of his doubts and the things he's learned that are not made known to JW's. He decreases his ministry, he stop answering up. He's hit and miss at the KH.

  One day someone he confided in about his doubts informs an elder. The body of elders harass him to meet with them. He agrees. His beliefs are picked away at, he's labelled an apostate (despite citing evidence for everything he says, even from their own old publications). He's called to a JC. He goes. He's disfellowshipped.

  His entire family cut him off. Even though they WANT to associate with him they cut him off. In fact, in the days leading up to his DF announcement he's visited every day by his family just so they can see him on last time. They tearfully tell him they love him but they have to obey the elders or THEY themselves will be DF.
  

  WHAT WE LEARN FROM THIS - Keep your thoughts to yourself. If you dont tell anyone, there's no way it can get out. Also, clear your internet history religiously after going on sites like this. If you agree to meet with the elders you're giving them the power they want to disfellowship you. Ignore they're calls.

  Im sure you guys could add more tips to this but this if i could turn the clock back one year i wish i'd known this.
  
• 
  37

  Elders harassing me

  by raven in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  hi everyone, it has been a while since i've last updated!

  (refer to my previous posts for the full story) here is a quick re-cap: 2 months ago my mother found out that i am living with my boyfriend, she told me i was discovered by an "anonymous" tipper who turned me in for "living in sin".. first of all, that is nearly impossible, the congregation i was in is 100's of miles away from where i currently live.. no one would have ever known i was living with my boyfriend unless i told them, which i never did, i cut off all communication with that congregation in part of my attempted fade which was blown into pieces and discovered.. anyways, my mom tells me if i don't go to the elders and confess like a good little sheep, then she is obligated to tell them.. ( don't see why, i don't even live under her roof ) well i never went to them because why should i?

  so they met with my mother and she told them i live with my boyfriend... let me remind you, this was two months ago.. i was told i was going to be df'd and that was that.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  pale.emperor

  I've been DF'd for about 2 weeks. I had the same situation as you, one day i had 46 missed calls!!! Not to mention texts, emails and my apartment buzzer going off every 20 mins. I eventually had to turn the buzzer off.

  Stupidly, i went to the judicial and they DF'd me. Im sure there's a clause in the elders guidebook that says something along the lines of "if they turn up to a JC they are recognizing the authority of the body".

  I'd ignore them entirely.