Posts by Perry

So, the universe did and at the same time did not have a start? But the Big Bang, is self existing or was "always there" and this is what did and at the same time did not start the universe? Isn't it easier to believe in God who is self existing and always existing?; especially in light of the information required for life? If not, explain how this does not violate Occam's Razor and where the information for life came from?

Without time it would be meaningless to ask its existence and that of the universe.
When the universe was created it was simply there all the time, existing
in the same way as nothing, as it always has.

You speak of the universe both being created and always existing. Please clarify if the Big Bang in your view is self existing (outside of time) or if the universe is.

I agree that the universe is nothing more than vibrational manipulation to create the illusion of matter, time and space.... from the point of view of outside the fabric (and a magnificent "illusion" I might add). But what caused this "just so" cosmological constant?

Isn't it easier to believe in agency, existing outside of the space time fabric to fabricate the "just so" conditions that are observable?

130

Atheist Miracles

by Perry in

jw
friends

i reworded a variation of a common critique of atheists to my own liking.

no, i do not hate atheists, i love them!

they keep me from getting bored.

Perry

I 'liked' both of your posts because you are a kick. You're like a witness and householder arguing at a door. Always entertaining, and lucky to find, since it kept me from having to take the next door myself. Remember that? Heaven!

Yes I do. Exhilarating, as wrong as we were.

130

Atheist Miracles

by Perry in

jw
friends

i reworded a variation of a common critique of atheists to my own liking.

no, i do not hate atheists, i love them!

they keep me from getting bored.

Perry

I reworded a variation of a common critique of atheists to my own liking. No, I do not hate atheists, I love them! They keep me from getting bored. Atheists are challenging!

Atheist Miracles:

First, there was nothing. Then, nothing acted upon the nothing and caused nothing to explode. Out of the exploded nothing, came everything and everywhere. After nothing exploded, nothing created information that if stacked as books, would reach the moon and back several times at the exact same time that nothing magically created a 3D double helix information storage system to contain this library in a space smaller than a period. Then for no reason, this information from nothing, created the first single cell from nothing, that for nothing in particular, replicated. This replication magically turned into people, some of whom believe that if you don’t exclusively teach their miracles in schools, you are dangerous.

72

Coping With Atheism (Long-ish Post...sorry!)

by humblepotato in

jw
friends

long time lurker (2009-ish), first time poster.

first of all, i want to say thank you everyone who contributes to these boards and provokes stimulating conversations and thought processes.

all the opinions and different perspectives are very enlightening.

Perry

Vivane,

This sign reminded me of you recently.

5

which ones? just these ones! and no partaking mentioned.hmm

by sowhatnow in

here in matthew chapter 19 jesus tells a man the commandments he has to do to gain life... which apparently did not include partaking of his flesh and blood.

so this means that this man could have everlasting life and not partake of the emblems.

they knew not of them.

Perry

Jesus is just saying here that you have to be perfect to gain entrance into the Kingdom. The New Covenant that he later offered was an offer of imputation of righteousness as well as vicarious punishment.

Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect. - Jesus

14

"What every atheist should say to God...if Judgment Day actually happens"!

by James Mixon in

interesting read.

i wouldn't recommend you believers to read it.

i don't think i. would have the balls to tell god that.

Perry

72

Coping With Atheism (Long-ish Post...sorry!)

by humblepotato in

jw
friends

long time lurker (2009-ish), first time poster.

first of all, i want to say thank you everyone who contributes to these boards and provokes stimulating conversations and thought processes.

all the opinions and different perspectives are very enlightening.

Perry

JW's pick and choose a lot of things in the bible to prop up their rebellion against God when they deny the blood of the covenant that is expressly FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS.

And taking a cup, he offered thanks and gave it to them, saying: “Drink out of it, all of you, for this means my ‘blood of the covenant, which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins - Mt 26: 27-28 NWT

72

Coping With Atheism (Long-ish Post...sorry!)

by humblepotato in

jw
friends

long time lurker (2009-ish), first time poster.

first of all, i want to say thank you everyone who contributes to these boards and provokes stimulating conversations and thought processes.

all the opinions and different perspectives are very enlightening.

Perry

Cofty,

The biblical test for knowing God [as opposed to imagining that we know him] seems to be continued fruit of his presence. The fruit is proof the faith is (was) real.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments [to believe?].

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

Some might argue that since you appear to not love your former brothers, you never knew God and never passed over from death to life.

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father [to believe?] which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity".

72

Coping With Atheism (Long-ish Post...sorry!)

by humblepotato in

jw
friends

long time lurker (2009-ish), first time poster.

first of all, i want to say thank you everyone who contributes to these boards and provokes stimulating conversations and thought processes.

all the opinions and different perspectives are very enlightening.

Perry

Sorry, to be clearer, that 1st line should have been:
" Perry, a child's natural predisposition towards belief in the concept of intelligent design by a God, does not prove that all adults 'know God exists'.

D of T,

Yes it still made sense. And, if you'll allow me to further clarify my thoughts:

I think that humans instinctively believe God exists, but because of learning various things, (and suppressing other things) some find themselves not believing.

I am tempted to make the following argument along these lines:

People believe God exists; however they do not cross over to KNOWING God exists until they are born again into the family of God.

My hypothetical argument would go something like this:

1. God says that a prerequisite to making friends with him is to first believe he exists.

Hebrews 11:6 - he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. In other words, they must want rewards from God.

2. Knowing God, having experiential truth of his existence, is reserved for those that are "born again". In other words, reserved for those that have made friends with him by the BLOOD of Christ, him "being made sin for us" and taking the prescribed punishment for our sin, in our place. Once the criminality of the man is dealt with, God readily reveals himself to the believer and he crosses over from BELIEF to KNOWING.

John 10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

1 John 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Now, as JW's we certainly never believed that we knew a for-sure salvation. We had to tow the line to have HOPE of salvation, according to the WT definition of hope. However hope and knowing in the biblical sense are not mutually exclusive. The bible says we can KNOW and also have HOPE in the same thing that is not yet fully experienced. (The WT definition of hope is like when we hope we win the lottery). Biblical hope is 100% sure, just not yet fully experienced.

I personally experienced this transfer from belief to KNOWING when I was born again by the spirit of God. It is quite dramatic when God starts working in a person' life without the barrier of sin in the way of the relationship.

A person then experiences the reality of Romans 8: 28 where Gods says that he doesn't protect the child of God from experiencing obstacles and dangers, but that he transforms the obstacles and dangers into things that work for the GOOD of the friend of God, those that are supernaturally enabled to love him.

That is the argument that I am tempted to make. And, there is doubtless much truth in that argument.

However, Romans 1: 20 kinda diminishes that argument:

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, [as children?] they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations

Is God saying here that our guilt emerges when we make the transition from a child [who believes God] into an adult who indulges their imaginations and suppression of the fact of his existence and inherent accountability?

That is what it seems like to me. Many Christians believe, and have scriptural support, that children who die before the age of accountability are transferred immediately into his loving presence. It is not that the children haven't yet sinned and are deserving of eternal life, it is the belief [faith] that saves them from judgment by God's grace.

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast"

This is probably why Jesus pleaded with people to become like children if they wanted to be saved.

Jesus was once asked by a man point blank: what was the work of God so that he could do it [since he gathered that the LAW WASN'T SUFFICIENT according to Jesus)

Virtually the first word out of his mouth was... BELIEVE.