Posts by Perry

24

Why remove John 8:1-11 in the NWT if these verses speak highly of Jesus

by I_love_Jeff in

i understand these verses were removed in the nwt as well as some other bibles because they were added later & considered uninspired.

jesus protected an adultress so why remove it?

it fits in nicely with his teachings, does it not?

Perry

Greek scholar Didymus the Blind (c. 350 A.D.) is known to have cited the passage extensively in his commentary on Ecclesiastes, which was discovered in the 1940's. It was commented on at a time when it is admitted that "many manuscripts, both Greek and Latin contained the story" ( cf. Jerome) of the Woman Taken in Adultery.

Not only was the passage known among Greek commentators from before Jerome's time, it was known specifically in Alexandria, the suspected source of the Alexandrian text-type, which omits the verses. (ie. Sinaiticus and Vaticanus manuscripts which are summarily rejected as hopelessly corrupted by millions of Christians today)

Early Writers and John 8:1-11

Date	Author	comments

c. 150 B.C.	Susanna new!	- O.G. has "ορθρου"
60-120 A.D.	Didache	- Greek & Commentary
100 A.D.	Papias	- Greek/English
140 A.D.	Marcion	- early tampering
150 A.D.	Gospel of Peter	- & John 8:1-11
c. 150 A.D.	Susanna (Theod.)	- Theod: πᾶς ὁ λαὸς
140-160 A.D.	Diatesseron	- knows of Jn 8:1-11

210 A.D.	Tertullian	- evidence of edict
220 A.D.	Hippolytus	- on Susanna & Origen
230 A.D.	Origen	- not so silent
250 A.D.	Didaskalia	- quotes Jn 8:1-11
290-556 A.D.	The Emperors	- Adultery & Roman Law

c. 330 A.D.	Constantine	- (see Philostorgius)
c. 350 A.D.	Apostolic Constitutions	- PA as Holy Scripture
	Apostolic Const.	- Greek Text
350 A.D.	Ambrosiaster	- a solid quotation
360 A.D.	Didymus	- quotes PA as scripture
370 A.D.	Pacian	- Supports Jerome
c. 384 A.D.	Jerome	- on John 8:1-11
	Jerome's NT Preface	- good discussion
388 A.D.	Ambrose	- quotes Jn 8:1-11
350-400 A.D.	Epiphanius new!	- Euseb. Canon has PA!
380-400 A.D.	Faustus on PA	- quoted by Augustine
400 A.D.	Augustine	Supports PA & TR

408 A.D.	Rufinus	- aware of PA
c. 400 A.D.	Chrysostom	- new evidence for PA
425 A.D.	Philostorgius	- discusses tampering
429 A.D.	Theodoret	- startling evidence
400-450	Sozomen new!	- Constantine & Crispus
425-450 A.D.	Sedulius	- PA as Holy Scripture

4th-5th cent.	Syriac PA	- accepted as genuine

c.650+ A.D.	Gospel of Barnabas new!	- & the PA
c.700 A.D.	The Venerable Bede	- homily on PA
c.1100 A.D.	Euthymius	- evidence misused

15

JW Good News is merely B.S. Bad News demonstrably wrong (Here is the proof)

by TerryWalstrom in

scare tactics generating fear of the end is the core message of jehovah's witnesses.predictions based on so-called bible prophecy is their mother's milk.

"critical times hard to deal with" flavors every book, article,pamphlet and conversation spoken by dub on the doorstep.indeed, all we hear anywhere seems to be bad news.

are jw's right?can this be put to the test?

Perry

Or, as Charles Dickens put it, “It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.” The world keeps spinning, but it wobbles. All the same....

1. Abortions are down to lowest levels since Roe v. Wade

2. Cigarette smoking down

3. Littering has declined by 61% in last 40 years

4. Teen drug and alcohol abuse is down (not including weed)

5. Percentage of college educated population has increased by a 1/3 in the US

6. The Watchtower can hide much less of their dirty laundry than they could 30 years ago with the invention of the internet.

7. Median Household Income (and potential) has risen substantially even when adjusted for inflation

Now if we could just get our debt, trade deficits, and 100 Trillion in unfunded liabilities down.

17

My son graduated last Friday

by Captain Schmideo2 in

jw
friends

i have talked about him before on this forum.

he is now a graduate from mit!.

it was a lovely weekend.. i got to meet some of the friends he has made in the past four years, and some of their families.. they were very nice, decent, friendly, and enjoyable people.

Perry

Wonderful news Captain! Very happy and excited for you.

3

"Keep testing if you are in the faith" Just like a Doctors visit??

by stuckinarut2 in

a thought came to mind.. often when we awaken to the "truth about the truth", jws will ask "what made you start questioning things?

they act as if we are doing something wrong by questioning facts.. but, the scripture at 2 cor 13:5 clearly says "keep testing whether you are in the faith, keep proving what you are".

so, this implies regular checks of our faith, and all we believe to be true.

Perry

The 2nd half of that scripture ends with: "except ye be reprobates"? (KJV)

So the only ones who don't apply a test to see if their faith is genuine are reprobates.

Definition: When a sinner is so hardened as to feel no remorse or misgiving of conscience, it is considered as a sign of reprobation.

This is how I reasoned when I left in Nov. 1995. I lived through the 1975 false prediction as a 12 year old. I lived through the generation prediction collapse with the Nov. 1995 issue of the Watchtower at age 32... I saw no remorse, no apologies; just more misdirection and denials.

They failed the test of faith. And with their failure, my misplaced faith also failed.

I'm so glad I got out when I did.

13

JW stopped me in the street.....

by Phizzy in

he pulled up in his car beside me and asked for directions, then he recognized me, we used to be in the same congo.. the usual pleasantries, i gave him directions, and then "when are you going to come back then" he asks.. "never" i say, "well, it has all changed" he says, " it's not like it used to be" i detect a tone of regret.. "but you know there is nowhere else to go" he boldly proclaims.. "yes there is !

" say i, "there is somewhere where you can find truth, and truth is supported by facts and evidence ".

he had to drive off then as he was blocking a narrow street, i did not get time to say " go to jw facts.com", i will tell him next time..

Perry

Wow, that's a totally different beast !

13

JW stopped me in the street.....

by Phizzy in

he pulled up in his car beside me and asked for directions, then he recognized me, we used to be in the same congo.. the usual pleasantries, i gave him directions, and then "when are you going to come back then" he asks.. "never" i say, "well, it has all changed" he says, " it's not like it used to be" i detect a tone of regret.. "but you know there is nowhere else to go" he boldly proclaims.. "yes there is !

" say i, "there is somewhere where you can find truth, and truth is supported by facts and evidence ".

he had to drive off then as he was blocking a narrow street, i did not get time to say " go to jw facts.com", i will tell him next time..

Perry

Thanks for posting this little bit of insight on WT culture these days. I voluntarily left in Nov. of '95 for reasons of conscience.

A recently faded ex-JW told me recently that I would not even recognize the meetings if I were to go back to visit now.

Are they not even using songbooks now Listener? I knew about the prerecorded viceos in place of live parts. It all makes me want to go visit just to see for myself.

8

Interesting

by dogisgod in

jw
friends

i just heard this the other day.

growing up a jehovahs witness is like growing up in no.

korea.

Perry

In the past I have described the JW experience as a cross between N. Korean brain-washing tactics and mafia-style callousness..... displayed by people who wear suits.

I remember a Circuit Overseer stating that he had heard that some people had accused JW's as being brain washed. He then stated with a smirky smile that most people probably needed to have their brains washed.

38

Joseph Rutherford = Donald Trump

by Wild_Thing in

jw
friends

i have been rereading a lot about rutherford lately; about his personality and the kind of person he was.

i have come to the conclusion that he was a lot like donald trump.. he was an accused womanizer.. he was a narcissist with a self inflated ego.

he claimed to be persecuted by the media all the time.

Perry

There is complaint in various places that the Watch Tower studies have degenerated into mere reading lessons.

Seems like this has been a problem from the beginning.

9

The dishonesty of JWs vs mainstream churches

by Wonderment in

one of the most vexing matters confronting us as christians has to do with the apparent lack of honesty of so-called "christian" teachers on the many issues they frequently talk about.

this should not be shocking to us since scripture tells us that "everyone has sinned.

" (rom.

Perry

There are far more capable people than I that have studied this out:

https://zondervanacademic.com/blog/bible-contradictions-explained/

Preterism holds that Ancient Israel finds its continuation or fulfillment in the Christian church at the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. This is also called "Replacement Theology". The Watchtower has adopted a type of replacement theology where (in their view) Israel's national contract with God that was inaugurated on Mt. Sinai was transferred onto them, the Wt. leaders. Neither view lines up with scripture:

Galatians 3:
For all who rely on the works of the law are under the curse. For it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the Book of the Law, to do them.”11 Now it is evident that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, for “The just shall live by faith.”12 But the law is not of faith, for “The man who does them shall live by them.”13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law by being made a curse for us—as it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”14 so that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
The Law and the Promise
15 Brothers, I am speaking in human terms: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is ratified, no one annuls or adds to it. 16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and his Seed. He does not say, “and to seeds,” meaning many, but “and to your Seed,”meaning one, who is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not annul the covenant that was ratified by God in Christ, so as to nullify the promise. 18 For if the inheritance comes from the law, it no longer comes from the promise. But God gave it to Abraham through a promise.

And Romans 1: 25 - For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, lest you be wise in your own estimation, for a partial hardening has come upon Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

Clearly, the old and new covenants are running concurrently. The former is a national covenant where only the nation of Israel is guaranteed survival. (The modern nation of Israel testifies to its veracity). The new covenant is a personal contract between God and the believer. It is FAR better because it irrevocably guarantees the avoidance of Personal Condemnation for the believer..... because Christ was condemned in our place, suffering our due punishment. God adopts us and takes personal responsibility for our continued existence, training, discipline, and yes ... he often spoils us with many gifts; just as we do with our own children.

We are nearing the close of the Age of Grace (the current dispensation) . God will shortly deal directly with the nation of modern Israel, after the rapture of the christian believers; to restore their belief. As a nation, this time they will treat the King with the proper respect. When they collectively cry out "blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord", then he will return.

But, it will take global upheaval to get them to do that. But, it is going to happen..... guaranteed. The Return of the King.

One more dispensation to go - The Millennium.

Will be quite a ride.

9

The dishonesty of JWs vs mainstream churches

by Wonderment in

one of the most vexing matters confronting us as christians has to do with the apparent lack of honesty of so-called "christian" teachers on the many issues they frequently talk about.

this should not be shocking to us since scripture tells us that "everyone has sinned.

" (rom.

Perry

Mr. Roboto,

Paul was accepted as an apostle by Peter, James and John... Jesus' closest confidants. Jesus admitted that he was sent primarily to the JEWS, the benefactors of previous agreements between God and Abraham , Moses etc. Largely, he was not received.

Paul speaks of dispensations.; Which are different ways God relates to man in different time periods. Jesus, being God himself manifest in the flesh, spoke of the current dispensation prophetically. Paul was chosen to get the new dispensation kicked off.

In a nutshell, the message to the Jews was Mt. 24: 14 (a kingdom message). This is what the Jews were waiting on and should have resonated with them. Apparently Jesus wasn't macho enough for them.

The message to the gentiles is recorded in Acts. Ch. 10 where (the resurrected) Jesus instructs Peter and the other apostles to emphasize Judgment as the message to the gentiles. All people will be personally judged AFTER they die. (Heb. 9:27) Paul spearheaded this alternate message, since the kingdom message was rejected. This easily accounts for the differences in message between Jesus and Paul.... and obviously makes no other sense otherwise:

Matt. 22:

Jesus spoke to them again by parables, saying, 2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son, 3 and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding, but they would not come.

4 “Again, he sent out other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited: See, I have prepared my supper. My oxen and fattened calves are killed, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’

5 “But they made light of it and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his business; 6 the rest took his servants, treated them spitefully, and killed them. 7 When the king heard about it, he was angry. He sent in his army and destroyed those murderers and burned up their city. (In 70 AD the Romans did this)

8 “Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. 9 Go therefore to the streets, and invite to the wedding banquet as many as you find.’ 10 So those servants went out into the streets and gathered together as many as they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests.

That invitation is still open to anyone who would receive it.... some 2000 years later. But, the hour is late.