Posts by Perry

9

Can I borrow your god?

by thinker in

according to biblical history, the israelites were in egypt for 430 years.

that's a long, long time.

that would be approximately 14 generations.

Perry

I think a review of the Abrahamic Covenant would be insightful.

10

Is it more difficult to help our loved ones escape the MATRIX if we still share common elements of BLINDNESS with the Watchtower?

by Fernando in

put three people in a matrix controlled room.. "gb" actively supports the matrix and is under its control.. "jw" passively supports the matrix and is under its control.. "exjw" is onto the matrix and rejects its control.. there is an off switch that will kill the matrix.

the matrix has hidden this switch from everyone in the room by blinding their minds.. each person owns a low-level encrypted life operations library with millions of circuit diagrams, and a series of decryption keys.

unbeknownst to all of them, one of these diagrams is a map leading to the off switch.. someone outside the room slips a note under the door which names and identifies the circuit diagram or map in several languages.. everyone sees and reads the note.. "gb" burns the note and denounces it as "apostasy".. "jw" has fleeting "cognitive dissonance" but silences it by repeating the mantra:.

Perry

Fernando!

You were supposed to take the red pill, not the blue one!!!

106

One Lord - One Savior : Get Used To It

by Perry in

jehovah in the old testament and jesus in the new testament are one and the same.. .

3. jehovah is salvation.

5. jehovah wants only himself to be worshipped.

Perry

Terry,

There you go again throwing cold water on a perfectly good feeding frenzy. How have you been? I'm in Dallas most every week now from all the recent storms there.

Lunch offer is still open.

59

Other Sheep & New Covenant WT Scams

by Perry in

Perry

Long Day.

Yes, we are in basic agreement. No way two different covenants were being discussed that night.

However, I still maintain "make a covenant" is totally out of place because the wording "a covenant" sounds like it could still mean something specific in the English language. Wheras "appoint", "bequeath", "bestow" better preserves the action that is acheived by virture of some unknown, non-specific authorithy or position of the giver. That non specific authority or position is revealed just nine verses earlier when they were discussing THE New Covenant and so makes perfect sense with the context.

I wouldn't have a problem with using a verbalized form of covenant if there was such a word in English, but there isn't. So, I'll make one up to make my point. How about covenatize ?

I covenatize a kingdom unto you. This preserves the official action without the possibility of connoting a specific covenant that may or may not be part of some other one.

We can agree to disagree on this. We wouldn't even be discussing it if the WT didn't walk through the idiomatic open door of that rendering and teach the very opposite of what Jesus would have wanted us to do with his New Covenant with mankind.

Have a good evening!

59

Other Sheep & New Covenant WT Scams

by Perry in

Perry

I understand Ann. And such is the nature of languages.... slippery, somewhat subjective little things.

Couple of points here:

The Codex Alexandrinus, with some other MSS., the later Syriac, and Origen, read in the first clause, διαθηκην, a covenant. I appoint unto you a Covenant

First off, vast numbers of Christians do not except the minority text scripts as authoritative for a number of very good reasons. I am one of those. You can read about my reasons here. Vaticanus and Alexandrinus and the few frags and mss based on them make up less than 1% of all known manuscripts. They contain thousands of disagreements with each other and enough words are omitted, that if added up would equal the length of 1 and 2nd Peter. That's a lot of missing ends of sentences and key words for people like pseudo translators Fred Franz to perform his alchemy with, not to mention the obvious problem of the actual quality of the manuscript itself.

What the text is saying is something is this:

"By virture of the New Covenant (which they were all just previously discussing), with me as its blood furnisher (legalizer), and you all as members, I can now and do hereby, under the rights and terms associated with that Agreement extend co-rulership rights with me to you all."

The above captures the meaning of the discussion, but so does "I appoint unto you a kingdom". - Much cleaner, concise and less apt to be misconstrued.

diatheke - Strongs 1242 means literally A Contract

diatithemai - Strongs 1303 is a related word and literally means: to put apart, i.e. (figuratively) dispose (by assignment, compact, or bequest):--appoint

The words are different although related. In diatithemai, the "assigning" is performed under the terms of a non-specific agreement or authority. However, diatheke is a specific contract.

See the difference?

106

One Lord - One Savior : Get Used To It

by Perry in

jehovah in the old testament and jesus in the new testament are one and the same.. .

3. jehovah is salvation.

5. jehovah wants only himself to be worshipped.

Perry

You are reading back to the Hebrew Scriptures from a Christian perspective.

I don't think so. It's also known as detailed fulfilled prophecy, a work of God. Prophecy, by its very nature requires a comparison of writings from different time periods.

Isaiah 53 is pretty clear to most folks:

2For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

3He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shallmy righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Jehovah also predicted he'd thirst, his hands and feet would be pierced and his garments stripped from him:

Psalm 22 - 14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have enclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

Jehovah again says he would be pierced:

Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

John 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

106

One Lord - One Savior : Get Used To It

by Perry in

jehovah in the old testament and jesus in the new testament are one and the same.. .

3. jehovah is salvation.

5. jehovah wants only himself to be worshipped.

Perry

Thanks Andrew. I learned something new from your post:

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow.... and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:10,11 compared with Isaiah 45:22,23

When a person really understands what happened, it is utterly fantastic:

Jehovah, who made his laws well known, and in large part was known by them and through them - used the occassion of the fall of man (and Satan) to display an up-to-that-point unknown and different facet of his personality: the riches of his mercy by dying in our place, substituting for us in death and absorbing our due punishment in himself. Utterly awesome!

He's da Man!

No pun intended.

10

Just How Secure Is God's Covenant?

by Perry in

when i was a young boy, i had a dog named foxie.

suffice it to say that we were so close that our spirits were one.

it seemed that we could almost communicate telepathically.

Perry

The monkeys seem to make it into almost any discussion about God.

2

John 5: 28 & 29 - All Means ALL

by Perry in

the unsaved dead die and sleep like babies for ever and ever - that's what we were told.

only problem is; its a lie from hell.. "the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.".

the mind is an amazing thing.

Perry

Yes, JW reckoning indeed.

"all that are in the graves shall hear his voice" - can those in this supposed "place of inactivity" hear?

Also, part b destroys another favorite belief of JW's: that you can atone for your own sin just by dying.

"they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

Though I mostly ignored this scripture as a JW, I can honestly say that this one and a few others mildly disturbed me. Albeit not enough to want to get to the bottom of things.

Here's another one that flies completely in the face of Watchtower theology:

Rev: 20:5 - But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

I now know that the unsaved dead will be resurrected at the end of Jesus' 1000 yr. rule to face judgement at the Great White Throne Judgement

106

One Lord - One Savior : Get Used To It

by Perry in

jehovah in the old testament and jesus in the new testament are one and the same.. .

3. jehovah is salvation.

5. jehovah wants only himself to be worshipped.

Perry

TEC,

Scripture is clear about them being the same essence, and not just one in purpose, attitude (spirit) etc.

I want to address tootiredtocare: Welcome!

1. Col 1:15 if Jesus is the Almighty how is it that he is also a creation? - Col 1:15

Because Jesus is in posession of BOTH the esssence of God AND the esence of Man. In Mt. 22: 45 Jesus stumps the Pharasees with a similar question as yours: "If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?" And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions."

2. Who is the person standing next to Jesus in heaven here? - Acts 7:55

55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Can the creator of the universe not place his essence or basic substance in two places or personages at the same time as Jesus indicated in Mt. 22: 45 above ? If no, then he wouldn't be unlimited or omnipitent. In other words, the lack of exact understanding on our part does not constitute an impossibility on God's part.

3. Who are the two beings here? - Proverbs Chapter 8

A straightforward reading tells you:

Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?
2She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths.

3She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors.

4Unto you, O men, I call; and my voice is to the sons of man.

5O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart.

6Hear; for I will speak of excellent things; and the opening of my lips shall be right things.

7For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips.

This is a lierary device known as personification. (of wisdom in this case)

4. Why did Jesus not have insight to the knowledge that only the father had?

Because as a man, certain things were unknown to him, just as they are to us. God apparently has three complimentary personalities, yet only one substance. The personality of the eternal Son and the essence (stuff), substance of God was incorporated into the man Jesus, descendant of David.

5. If Jesus is God Almighty why the need to act as mediator with himself? Hebrews chapter 8.

Can you point to the precise scripture that would lead you to such a conclusion?

6. Why does he sit down at the righthand of God instead of right in the throne?

Because God is not limited to geography in space/time. Also, Jesus is the Son - not the Father, designations that indicate order. The "righthand" vision fairly represents that order.

7. Why would Jesus pray to himself?

As a man he prayed to God the Father.

8. Who is he giving the kingdom back to here? 1Cor 15:24

The personage of the Father. He can still possess the substance of God (and thus literally be God) and do this.

9. Is it really a sacrifice if he never really died? You can't ressurect yourself if your really dead?

He really died. It is well attested to historically. And, yes you can - If you understand what death actually is from a biblical definition and not a materialistic / Watchtower definition. For the biblical definition of death see here.

10. Why is Jesus subject to God if he is the Almighty? 1 Cor 11:3

Why is my hand subject to my head? Both are "me" even though they have different names. Again, the absence of how the exact functionalities of God works on our part, does not constitute an impossibility on God's part.

People can be easily be subject to a sort of reverse anthropomorphism on this subject unless they really think it through.