designs,
I think it matters a lot to some people. This information was never presented to me as a Jehovah's witness. That was before the internet of course.
Posts by Perry
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114Early Evidence for 1 John 5: 7
by Perry initalic 4th and 5th century.
629 in the 14th century.
429 in the 14th century (margin).
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114
Early Evidence for 1 John 5: 7
by Perry initalic 4th and 5th century.
629 in the 14th century.
429 in the 14th century (margin).
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Perry
Early manuscript evidence that exists for I John 5:7,8
Early church writers that used it:
Cyprian 200 - 258 AD. "The Lord says, 'I and the Father are one;' and again it is written of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 'And these three are one'." If Cyprian quotes I John 5:7 from his Bible in 200• 258 AD, it must be a valid reading. His Bible was copied from an older manuscript containing this verse.
Cyprian lived only 100 years after John wrote the book of I John. Cyprian would have had access to the original manuscript to check.
• Priscillian 350 AD, a Spanish bishop quotes I John 5:7,8.
• Idacius Clarus 360 AD, who opposed Priscillian quotes it.
• Varimadum 380 AD.
• Cassiodorus 485 AD.
• Cassian 435 AD.
• Victor Vita 489 AD.
• Jerome 450 AD.
• Fulgentius 533 AD.
• Ps. Vigilius 484 AD.
• Ansbert 660 AD.Early bible versions that include it:
Old Syriac 170 AD.
Old Latin 200 AD, in North Africa and Italy.
Italic 4th and 5th century. – Italic • Monacensis 7th century.
Italic • Speculum 9th century.
Latin Vulgate 4th, 5th century.Greek miniscule manuscripts that include it:
• 221 in the 10th century.(variant).
• 88 in the 12th century.(margin).
• 629 in the 14th century.(Ottobanianus)
• 429 in the 14th century (margin).
• 636 in the 15th century. (margin).
• 61 in the 16th century.(Codex Montfortianus)
• 918 in the 16th century. (an Escorial ms).
• 2318 (a Bucharest manuscript). -
48
A few questions for believers
by keyser soze inwhen confronted with all of the inconsistencies and atrocities of the bible, many believers invariably claim that they don't base their faith in christ on what's written in the bible.
so what is the basis then, if not scripture?.
and please don't tell me "the lord has revealed himself to me".
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Perry
Oh, and you insult everyone that didn't get some kind of answer from Jesus. They didn't fully believe, trust, or didn't do it exclusively enough. Thanks for the insult, Perry. Up yours too.
OTWO,
That's not me saying those things are required. Need I provide scriptural references? I think that you as a former elder do not need that. We all know where those scriptures are. Christianity IS OFFENSIVE, not just insulting. Christianity is utterly at war with our natural man, our very initiative to preserve ourself. It tries to give us something for free, when our natural bent is to work for it, instinctively.
Everything we get in this life is usually worked for. Then God comes along and says, see you can't do it; here let me give it to you. Then, everyone who still wants to work a thousand years for in it "the new system" has a conniption fit. (my JW friends)
Sin was not purchased for us, we got that damned thing through one act of disbelief, one act of distrust. Salvation from moral judgment is just the opposite; you can't work for it and it is acquired through one act of singular belief and trust.
That makes sense to my mind, but my flesh is utterly at war with that concept because it means I'm not in control.... even though I know that the control that I think I have, is just an illusion.
As a child, I could accept gifts. Christianity attacks our perceived goodness (attacks peer pressure too) we think we have as adults, which prevents our accepting a free gift..... for some.
Not me, not anymore. I have seen the power and nature of God after wasting years in sin and WT idolatry... through one act of singular belief and trust. Jesus asks us to torch our bridges FIRST, then follow him. That's the offer.
He has a right to ask this in my opinion after what he willingly did. I did it (after a 1st & 2nd try) and have experienced victory, after victory, after victory. Though I march in the Triumph, I am not the Warrior. But the victories are none the less sweet.
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Jehovah's Witness disfellowshipped for questions, joins Catholic Church to "feel Love"
by Balaamsass2 inharber become a fan.
yogi, contemplative, writer.
producer of radio program radical spirituality and sacred activism.
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Perry
Recently I witnessed about 20 children from our parish taking their first communion. My 7-year old inner child wept as Father Seamus delivered the homily, stating and re-stating in every possible configuration, that these children were loved - by their faith community, their parents, and God - and that there was nothing, nothing, they could ever do to separate themselves from this love. The complete opposite of what I had heard about God and Love and Faith as a child .
I can certainly identify with the need for love in children and as children. But, I could not help but notice how the words "Jesus Christ" were ENTIRELY missing from the narrative.
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JW wife likes watching the 700 club
by goingthruthemotions ini have noticed lately that my wife has been watching the 700 club..i asked her if she liked it?
she said yes because it is positive.. i then agreed with her and left it there.
(note: i never hear anything positive at the meetings).
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Perry
That is interesting.
We will just be in agrement right now that she will see TTATT & TTAJC
Where two are in agreement .....
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48
A few questions for believers
by keyser soze inwhen confronted with all of the inconsistencies and atrocities of the bible, many believers invariably claim that they don't base their faith in christ on what's written in the bible.
so what is the basis then, if not scripture?.
and please don't tell me "the lord has revealed himself to me".
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Perry
Mad Giant,
Are not you basically asking if Jesus is really just a Copy-Cat Savior Myth "borrowed" from other Gods?
I read this years ago and it helped me to see things in a more scholarly way.
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History of the church/Christianity, etc.
by Joe Grundy ini have learned a great deal from some of the very erudite posters on this site (thank you).. for many years i've been interested in the history of the development of christianity, not only from its earliest days but through the reformation, etc., and through to the 18th, 19th and early 20th centuries when denominations, sects, cults took off in all directions like exploding fireworks.. i was aware, in broad terms, of luther, calvin and the development of protestantism from which so many denominations and sects (including jws) arose.
i was vaguely aware of the schism (1,000 years ago) between the western (catholic) and eastern (orthodox) churches and was tangentially interested as to why it happened (if the 'east' was the home of christianity, how come the 'west' disagreed with it?).
i was quite interested to read, while living in cyprus, a greek orthodox english language bible which had a large section in the back about the schism.
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Perry
Here is a page from my website that deals with Christian History, both Apostate and Biblical.
The book featured there is quite revealing in tracing bible Christians from the first century to the present.
This chart may also be helpful.
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48
A few questions for believers
by keyser soze inwhen confronted with all of the inconsistencies and atrocities of the bible, many believers invariably claim that they don't base their faith in christ on what's written in the bible.
so what is the basis then, if not scripture?.
and please don't tell me "the lord has revealed himself to me".
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Perry
When confronted with all of the inconsistencies and atrocities of the bible...
Isn't that kinda poisoning the well?
Most of the popularly cited "inconsistencies and attrocities" are dealt with here and here from a biblical and historical perspective. Other worldviews are effectively dealt with here and here.
Essentially we are under condemnation from the womb. If you think we have a right to life, then MUCH of what God has done will appear wrong.
And please don't tell me "The lord has revealed himself to me".
Here's a list of things that from what I have personally experienced and learned may prevent God from revealing himself to a person, even though he is familiar with Jesus:
1. A person must be willing to say good-bye to all his worldly posessions and even his own mother and father.
2. He must abandon himself to Jesus.
3. He must not only believe in Jesus as a historical figure but trust in him. For me, the kind of trust that it took for God to accept me is similar to jumping out of an airplane with a parachute on. People either fail to jump, or they fail to pull the rip cord, or they pull the rip cord of something other than the parachute, which is Christ our Savior. Most of us as JW's took the jump, but the cord we pulled wasn't Jesus Christ, it was the Watchtower corporation and our works. We might as well have tried to just flap our arms. The crash was inevetible.
4. A person will fail to have God revealed to him personally if he puts his trust in Jesus AND ________________ (anything else). Jesus utterly rejects such a person.
5. Failure to Repent
I repented a number of times as a JW and afterwards but failed in the other respects.... never met God in those circumstances. Later, when I did it the biblical way, I did. The bottom line is that there is much more to getting right with God than a casual belief in Jesus. You must be born again or you will definitely never meet God in this life and in the next there is only a meeting at Judgment for your sins to expect.
Hope this helps.
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Perry
Very interesting. Thanks for that post Sparky. Few modern JW's are aware of how they were thrown under the bus by their leaders:
YOU ARE NOT JUSTIFIED
The ...“other sheep”, [non 144,000] are in a different condition. …They are still human
creatures, not even justified, - Wt. 38 p.104, 105
JEHOVAH IS NOT YOUR FATHER
“he is not yet giving the ‘other sheep’ the standing of sons….
they address him prospectively as ‘Our Father’.” - Wt. 8/15/45 p. 253
JESUS IS NOT YOUR MEDIATOR
in a “strict Biblical sense Jesus is the ‘mediator’ only for anointed
Christians.” [The 144,000] - Wt.4/1/79 p. 31
This creates a problem for Jehovah's Witnesses: Roman 3: 10 says that "there is no one righteous , no not one." And, 1 Cor. 6: 9 & 10 reads: Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? And, Jesus told Nicodemus 3 TIMES that you have to be born-again (be justified) to either "see" or "enter" the Kingdom of God. So, without being one of the annointed, a person cannot inherit, see or enter the Kingdom.
This obviously applies to everyone. To prove the point: The "great crowd" or tribulation survivors (as Christians generally refer to them) in Rev. 7 had ALREADY "washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the lamb" - the white robes are an indication of their righteous standing through their new covenant membership.
"Therefore, those in union with Christ Jesus have no condemnation." - Romans 8: 1 NWT
The ONLY way to be "in union with Jesus" is through the New Covenant, also known as the blood covenant - the payment price for our personal sins. The watchtower leaders tricked people into essentially choosing condemnation as opposed to a full pardon on judgment day.
In other words, witnesses now reject Jesus' "gospel of salvation" ..... in the name of Jesus, of course.
"you heard the word of truth, the good news about your salvation. After you believed, you were sealed: - Eph 1: 13 NWT
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34
Is truth relative?
by Pinku inseeing various/changing laws on the same action, some may feel truth is relative, and there is no such thing as right and wrong.. yet a closer look at beneath the details would show that truth is not relative, and everyone knows what is right and wrong.. driving in the night by putting the head-light off is wrong, but right when country is in war with another country.
behind both the conflicting laws, the truth is same: safety and welfare of the people.
this is true of notion about what is right and wrong:.
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Perry
If someone peddles the truth that there is no truth, why should I believe him?
There are no eternal facts, as there are no absolute truths.
– Friedrich Nietzsche: Human, All-too-HumanIt is impossible for us, of our own volition to have a God's eye view of the universe. So, many like to say truth is subjective, and as such is subject to alteration because that statement relates to our subjective experience in our environment. However, truth could exist outside of our personal experience and we would be none the wiser. For instance, if a man is charged with killing his neighbor, he either did it or not. Our beliefs about the guilt or innocence is quite outside of the "Gods-eye" view.
So, I guess I'm arguing for , no.