Posts by deegee

6

Field Service By Atheists

by EverApostate in

good morning everyone,.

came across a very funny yet sensible poster on field service and wanted to share.

most of us would have done field service once upon a time and this poster would really make us laugh..

As a JW how would you answer this if someone brought it up in the ministry?

by NikL in

as a jw i pretty much just went along with what was taught from the platform i didn't do any real bible study.

as a result, now that i am out of the org.

i find scriptures that blow my mind.. i am not sure how i would have reacted if someone had pointed this out to me when i was a jw but now i can't believe i've never noticed this before.

deegee

NikL,

No need to worry, whichever side you choose you are right.
The Bible is contradictory. There are scriptures which state that Jesus is God & there are scriptures which state that Jesus is NOT God.

Just a note: the doctrine of the Trinity is no where announced in the Old Testament (OT).
The Trinity - God in three persons - is a concept completely foreign to Jewish thought.

Not only did Jesus not fulfill the OT prophecies of what the messiah would do, in nature he was also completely different from what the OT said the messiah would be. The Old Testament’s clear expectation is that the Jews’ savior would be a righteous and powerful, but still entirely human ruler.

There is no hint that he would be God’s own son, much less one-third of God himself. This development - the division of the formerly unified deity into Father, Son and Holy Ghost - did not come about until later, the time of formation of the New Testament canon.

No verse in the Old Testament anticipates such a startling disclosure, and some verses even seem to deny it:

- Deuteronomy 6:4
- Deuteronomy 32:39
- Isaiah 46:9

Rather than affirming his oneness for millennia and then suddenly telling his people to believe something different, why didn’t God say he was tripartite all along? Did he not want to confuse the Israelites’ strict monotheism?

But isn’t it even more confusing to neglect to tell them about it for a long time and then suddenly spring it on them?
Many Jews reject Christianity because they see the Trinity as polytheism.

Far more likely is that the Trinity was invented by later Christians in response to their need for a structure for God that could accommodate their beliefs about the divinity of Jesus.

Jesus certainly fits the criterion of a god the Jews had not known, and thus by the Bible’s own standard, they were obligated to reject him (Deuteronomy 13:1-3).

22

As a JW how would you answer this if someone brought it up in the ministry?

by NikL in

as a jw i pretty much just went along with what was taught from the platform i didn't do any real bible study.

as a result, now that i am out of the org.

i find scriptures that blow my mind.. i am not sure how i would have reacted if someone had pointed this out to me when i was a jw but now i can't believe i've never noticed this before.

deegee

.........CONT'D:

Is Jesus God?

NO, JESUS IS NOT GOD:

*** God cannot be tempted.

James 1:13:
"God cannot be tempted."

Yet Jesus was tempted. (So he isn't God):

Matthew 4:1; Luke 4:1-2:
"Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
Jesus.......Being forty days tempted of the devil."

Hebrews 4:14-15:
"Jesus........was in all points tempted as we are.

*** Jesus (sometimes) denied that he was God.

By saying:

- That he was neither good nor God:

Matthew 19:17, Mark 10:18:
"And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God."

- That his father was greater than he was:

John 14:28:
"My Father is greater than I."

- That he was just a man, a child of God like everyone else:

John 20:17:
"I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

John 8:40:
"But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God."

- As he was dying, Jesus asked God why he had forsaken him (can God forsake God?):

Matthew 27:46, Mark 15:34:
"My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? "

*** After Jesus died, he sat on the right hand of God (can God sit on his own right side?):

Mark 16:19:
"So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God."

Colossians 3:1:
"Christ sitteth on the right hand of God."

1 Peter 3:21-22;
"Jesus Christ: who is........on the right hand of God."

*** Jesus is the man God chose to judge other men and be their mediator:

Acts 17:31:
"Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead."

1 Timothy 2:5:
"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

*** He is still subject to God:

1 Corinthians 15:28:
"And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."

*** God knows more than Jesus:

Matthew 24:36:
"Of that day and hour knoweth no man, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

*** The Trinity - God in three persons - is a concept completely foreign to Jewish thought:

Deuteronomy 6:4
“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord.”

Deuteronomy 32:39 (compare especially to John 1:1):
“See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me."

Isaiah 46:9:
“I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.”

22

As a JW how would you answer this if someone brought it up in the ministry?

by NikL in

as a jw i pretty much just went along with what was taught from the platform i didn't do any real bible study.

as a result, now that i am out of the org.

i find scriptures that blow my mind.. i am not sure how i would have reacted if someone had pointed this out to me when i was a jw but now i can't believe i've never noticed this before.

deegee

THE BIBLE IS CONTRADICTORY

GOD INSPIRED THE BIBLE WRITERS TO CONTRADICT EACH OTHER (2 Timothy 3:16).

Is Jesus God?

YES, JESUS IS GOD:

*** The first words of John's gospel imply that Jesus ("the Word") is God.

John 1:1,14:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us."

*** Jesus (sometimes) claimed to be God. By forgiving sins. (Only God can forgive sins.)

Matthew 9:2-6; Mark 2:3-12:
"Jesus.......said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee. And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth ... That ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house."

John 5:16-18:
"Therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God."

*** By claiming to be the same as God.

John 14:9:
"He that hath seen me hath seen the Father."

*** By saying that he existed before Abraham, using one of God's names, "I am."

John 8:58 - 59:
"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
After hearing Jesus say these things, the Jews tried to stone him to death for claiming to be God."

John 10:30-31:
"I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him."

John 10:38-39:
"The Father is in me, and I in him. Therefore they sought again to take him."

*** When Thomas called Jesus God, Jesus didn't correct him. Rather, he said that everyone should believe he is God, even those who have never seen him.

John 20:28-29:
"And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

*** The New Testament (sometimes) also refers to Jesus as God:

- That the church of God was purchased with the blood of God (or maybe the Holy Ghost):

Acts 20:28:
"Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."

- That Jesus created all things:

Colossians 1:16:
"For by him [Jesus] were all things created."

- That the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Jesus bodily:

Colossians 2:9:
"For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily."

- That God was made manifest in Jesus' flesh:

1 Timothy 3:16:
"God was made manifest in the flesh."

- That Jesus is the great God who is in the form of God, is equal to God, and sits on the throne of God."

Titus 2:13:
"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ."

Philippians 2:6:
"Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God."

Hebrews 1:8
"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

*** In the book of Revelation, Jesus calls himself the first and the last, and the alpha and the omega:

Revelation 1:17:
"I am the first and the last."

Revelation 22:13:
"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."

23

Translating accurately is really f*&%$ing hard!

by TTWSYF in

i wanted to relay an example that i heard about translating difficulties.

take the 5 word phrase.

"i didn't eat your sandwich".

deegee

The 900-plus page "Catalogue Of English Bible Translations" (W. Chamberlin, 1991) lists 151 categories - not just translations, but categories of translations - of just the English versions of god's word.

With so many attempts at it, you'd think at least one translation would have got it right and then there would be no need for the other translations.

Why, why, why are there so many English translations?

Couldn't the one true God have told us about the one true faith in one reliable, readable holy writ?

Couldn't he have resurrected the original inspired texts like some dead sea trolls that keep popping up here? Does he not speak the language of the one true church (English)?

64

Free to sin but still cannot bring myself to do it

by sinboi in

have da'd myself nearly 3 months ago.

now i am part of this world but i feel myself the odd one out.

something inside me is still blocking me to do the things i have been longing to do while i was still a jw, such as attending birthday parties, sex, etc.... just last nite, i was on the way to attend a birthday party.

deegee

Sinboi,

Just so that I understand where you are coming from - What was your reason for disassociating, was it so that you could "sin"?

40

What really should be the role of Women in the congregations?

by Old Navy in

the presumably "biblical" practice of limiting the way women participate in congregational matters of the wtborg cult inc. (as well as certain other sects of christendom) may be a gross mis-interpretation of what paul meant.

i'm inclined to agree completely with this account of what paul really meant.. thoughts anyone?

aren't women more deserving of greater participation and respect?.

deegee

THE BIBLE IS CONTRADICTORY.

GOD INSPIRED THE BIBLE WRITERS TO CONTRADICT EACH OTHER (2 Timothy 3:16).

Can women be church leaders?

YES THEY CAN:

Judges 4:4:

"And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time."

Acts 18:26:

Priscilla was a servant of the church.

"And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto [them], and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly."

Romans 16:1:

Phoebe was a deaconess.

"I commend unto you Phoebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea":

(" I commend you to our sister Phoebe, a deaconess of the church." - The Revised Standard Version)

Romans 16:7:

Junia was an apostle.

"Junia.......of note among the apostles"

****"Junia" (Romans 16:7) Some translators were so upset at the idea of a woman apostle that they replaced "Junia" with "Junias." The problem with this is that although "Junia" was a common woman's name at that time, there is no evidence for "Junias" as a man's name. Bart D. Ehrman, Misquoting Jesus (2005), p.185

NO THEY CAN'T:

They cannot speak, teach, or have authority over men.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35:

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

1 Timothy 2:11-12:

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

PAUL CONTRADICTED HIMSELF - Romans 16:1,7 versus 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 & 1 Timothy 2:11-12.

No wonder why there are approximately 47,000 Christian denominations with different beliefs as of 2017 according to the Center for the study of Global Christianity.

( http://www.gordonconwell.edu/ockenga/research/documents/StatusofGlobalChristianity2017.pdf )

61

The "circle" of the earth

by stillin in

a fair bit of time was spent discussing the (one) scripture in the bible that "proves" that when the bible touches on scientific subjects, it is absolutely correct.

this was at the most recent clam meeting this past week.

from isaiah, the reference to the "circle" of the earth.

deegee

In the book of Joshua, it says the sun stood still?------UnshackleTheChains

Are there any records outside the Bible about this? No one else noticed such a phenomenal occurrence?

9

In the name of the...

by btlc in

when i was a kid, i was occasionaly attend to baptism at conventions, and i remember that brothers who immerses candidates in the water, said: "right hand to nose, left hand to right hand, and i baptise you in the name of the father, son and holy spirit, amen".

i remeber that same mantra at my baptism too, back in the eighties.

but, some years ago, i was asked to help to move some props around baptism pool, so i attend to baptism after so many years - there was no "in the name of the..." part.

deegee

btlc,

I'm just realizing that there is a problem with the link I provided above so I have re-posted it here (the colons at the end of the link above results in an error):

https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/baptism.php

This website provides Watchtower quotes which show the changes that took place over time regarding baptizing in the name of the Father, the Son and the holy spirit.

9

In the name of the...

by btlc in

when i was a kid, i was occasionaly attend to baptism at conventions, and i remember that brothers who immerses candidates in the water, said: "right hand to nose, left hand to right hand, and i baptise you in the name of the father, son and holy spirit, amen".

i remeber that same mantra at my baptism too, back in the eighties.

but, some years ago, i was asked to help to move some props around baptism pool, so i attend to baptism after so many years - there was no "in the name of the..." part.

deegee

See https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/baptism.php: