G'day Ozzie,
I suppose it should have been three cheers really. I thought some discussion of the different English usages of truth would have made something out of the Insight article. But, hey! The book's big enough already.
philo
Posts by philo
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2Three Cheers for the Insight Book!!!
by philo in"what is truth?
"for this i came into the world...to bear witness to the truth"
ever heard pilate's famous reply, "what is truth?
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Higher JW Hierarchy
by philo inalex was asking about how the org is structured.
i could detail the lower levels but got lost around do and bethel elder onwards.
can anyone who knows fill in some more, please?.
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philo
Thanks, Seeker and Bendrr.
Can you guys fit Bethel Elders into the picture. I have heard they outrank Cong Elders massively. Is this right?
Philo
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2
Three Cheers for the Insight Book!!!
by philo in"what is truth?
"for this i came into the world...to bear witness to the truth"
ever heard pilate's famous reply, "what is truth?
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philo
"What is truth?"
"For this I came into the world…to bear witness to the truth"
Ever heard Pilate's famous reply, "what is truth?" to Jesus scorned by JWs? 'What a fool he was, blinded by Roman and Greek philosophies and his upper-class education, no doubt.' Nevertheless, it was a good question, and it’s a shame for us Jesus didn't attempt to answer it.
If he had answered, what might he have said? What would you say?
Definitions of 'truth' from OED.
1. The fact or facts; the actual state of the case; the matter or circumstance as it really is. True statement or account; that which is in accordance with the fact. Conformity with fact; agreement with reality
This is closest to a scientific definition. I infer a gathering of information, and a collective process. I do not think Jesus meant this, but it's likely to have crossed Pilate's mind.
2. The character of being, or disposition to be, true to a person, principle, cause etc
As a soldier and statesman, Pilate may have associated truth with obedience, service, and self-sacrifice to the cause of Rome. Jesus too, may have agreed with this definition, not likely referring to Rome, but what about Israel? More likely, he meant trueness to his father in heaven, something in his case much closer to being true to one's self, so very different from Pilate's 'thought', especially when we recall that he 'found no fault with' Jesus, and passed the buck to Herod. Jesus also taught that it was the Holy Spirit who (or which) would reveal truth, "the spirit of the truth" (John 14:17 and 15:26) which seems a similar idea.
3. Agreement with a standard or rule; accuracy, correctness; accuracy of position or adjustment.
I don't know if this 'workman's sense of truth was used in Jesus day, but assuming it was, that builders and carpenters referred to correct levels and angles as 'true', is this what he meant? Perhaps the scriptures were Jesus' standard of truth, his level. However, since he railed against the Pharisees for making these 'invalid', and was so radical in his use of scripture, it seems to me that he would have found this definition too worldly and more of a conservative Pharisaic thought.
The WTBTS sense of truth comes between 2 and 3 for practical purposes: trueness being adherence to a person, principle, or cause (the WTBTS), in conjunction with conservative standards. There is an article in Insight which starts with a Hebrew definition: "['emeth']…that which is firm, trustworthy, stable, faithful, true, or established as fact." -- the sort of truth which never frightens the horses. It goes into a wide range of 'truth' usages in the Greek and Hebrew scriptures without discussing any English definitions, which seems a significant omission. However, JWs who may be questioning their faith will be pleased to learn that nowhere in the article is there a mention of the faithful and discreet slave, far less obedience to mommy equating to truth! That's a VERY significant omission.
Well done Aid to Bible Understanding (and Insight).
philo
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The dishonesty of a JW poster
by Seeker inin the "what's wrong w/jw's" thread, godrules is trying to defend the wts.
when godrules asked for "facts" that show jws are wrong, among the respondants was alanf.
alanf linked to his essay showing the dishonest way the creation book quotes evolutionists.
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philo
:disregard for truth
The only org.ites who still have any of this regard are probably just starting their bible studies with JWs; they will soon forget it. The organisation long ago redefined the meaning of truth as
"obedience"
.philo
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Higher JW Hierarchy
by philo inalex was asking about how the org is structured.
i could detail the lower levels but got lost around do and bethel elder onwards.
can anyone who knows fill in some more, please?.
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philo
Alex was asking about how the Org is structured. I could detail the lower levels but got lost around DO and Bethel Elder onwards. Can anyone who knows fill in some more, please?
philo
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Hey There, Georgie Boy!
by Englishman in.
i wonder what george can possibly be saying to our lizzie?.
englishman.. ..... fanaticism masquerading beneath a cloak of reasoned logic.
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philo
George to Korgy humping his leg:
"It's a great honororious unexpectitude to be greeted like this, Ma'am"
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Sexual Morality in OT & NT
by AlanF insexual morality in the old testament differs from that in the new testament .
conservative christians like the jehovah's witnesses often claim that, like the new testament, the old testament forbids all sexual relations outside marriage, including relations between unmarried people.
that is not quite true.
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philo
Big thanks, Alan.
Have read, have understood, have filed, BUT I see I'm going to have to reread and digest this.
philo
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What about the poisitve things learned?
by aud8 inwhat about the biblical truths explined by the witnesses?
yes there are many things wrong with the organisation, but they did get a lot right - trinity, hell etc etc is anyone grateful for some of the teachings they received whilst being a witness?.
aud8
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philo
LOL@Billygoat
1. How to stand up for what I believe - even if family believes something else. (Boy that backfired on 'em, didn't it???)
Damn, that's a good point!
philo
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Comparison of Mormonism and JWism
by alex ini'm thinking that the mind-control games are very very very very much the same between mormonism and jwism.
i've lurked here for a while and thought i'd introduce myself.
my name is alex and i'm an unbelieving mormon who lives in utah.
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philo
claudia, you're being a bit mischeivous I think. Good one! Susan[here] would probably not entirely approve.
philo
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Author Jeffery Archer Jailed.
by Englishman injeffery archer, author and speaker extraordinaire, also known as lord archer of weston super mare, was today sentenced to 4 years imprisonment for perjury* http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1424000/1424501.stm.
englishman.. ..... fanaticism masquerading beneath a cloak of reasoned logic.
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philo
Alan,
He was part of Thatchers court, possibly a minister once. He's an undying righty of course. Also, a notable writer of less than wonderful fiction, but it sells well. Unfortunately his fiction didn't impress the judge at the old bailey, he's been sent down for 4 counts of perjury.
How perjury? Years back, he was exposed in the press for sleeping with a prostitute, he denied it, sued the paper...and WON. But to win he had to perjure himnself and manufacture evidence. Just like writing a book really. So he got found out, poor bugger.
philo
