Posts by Drearyweather

12

Everything I once knew as a JW, is now wrong.

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

just had 2 nice witnesses at the door.

without boring you with all the to-ing and fro-ing.

i invented a friend who became a witness back in the early 1950s, this friend tried to get me to become a witness, because his teachers father (a leader in that congregation) told him that the big a was coming in 5 years (which was true).

Drearyweather

fulltimestudent,

Your title says,

Everything I once knew as a JW, is now wrong.

and at the end of your post you say:

lots of what I used to teach (and believe) is no longer true.

34

Impact of GDPR on WT HQ and EU branches?

by respectful_observer in

curious if any of our eu-based members (especially those still in) have heard anything from official wt channels on how the organisation plans to be in compliance with gdpr ("general data protection regulations") by may 2018?

it's my understanding that religious organisations must comply, and that religious data is treated a "protected" and therefore subject to some enhance requirements.. specifically, how will they comply with the following requirements:.

you must disclose to the individual: what data you collect on them, why, and what you do with the data (including what other parties receive the data and what they do with it).

Drearyweather

Prior to a person's consenting to share information, the organization must be clear about what they will do with their private data. I don't think any JW is informed on the day of his baptism that such a thing takes place.

During baptism, a JW is well aware the the elders have collected his personal data on the Publisher Record Card. He even gets to see it if he wants too. In fact it is the publisher who gives the data to them. What elders and the CO's do with the card is explained in the OD book which the publisher has access to. Now, it would be a valid point if the publisher can prove that his data is being used for purposes other than what it was intended for.

After that, whether it be Auxiliary Pioneering, Regular Pio, or Bethel Service, the individual himself fills up all the forms and submits it to the elders or to the society. In most of these forms the WT has mentioned a line whereby the applicant promises to cooperate with all the legal corporations of the WT and thus gives a consent that he allows the WT to use his personal data.

If the law demands, the WT will revise its policies in this, but I am not sure if WT has been doing or collecting data illegally.

For e.g. In India, in some places where anti-conversion law exists, before getting baptized, publishers prepare a legal affidavit stating that they are leaving their former religion and becoming JW;s at their own will and submit the document to the local authorities and the congregation.

So I presume WT would do the same in the EU, to save themselves from legal worries.

However, I feel it would be naive to say that a JW doesn't know that the Org maintains personal data about him.

34

Impact of GDPR on WT HQ and EU branches?

by respectful_observer in

curious if any of our eu-based members (especially those still in) have heard anything from official wt channels on how the organisation plans to be in compliance with gdpr ("general data protection regulations") by may 2018?

it's my understanding that religious organisations must comply, and that religious data is treated a "protected" and therefore subject to some enhance requirements.. specifically, how will they comply with the following requirements:.

you must disclose to the individual: what data you collect on them, why, and what you do with the data (including what other parties receive the data and what they do with it).

Drearyweather

What if the individual demand the "Right to be Forgotten" and all written evidence of them ever being a member wiped from congregation and WT files?

Interesting.

The first two points under article 17 says that the data should be erased unless,

1. the personal data are no longer necessary in relation to the purposes for which they were collected or otherwise processed;

2. the data subject withdraws consent on which the processing is based according to point (a) of Article 6(1), or point (a) of Article 9(2), and where there is no other legal ground for the processing;

the Data protection policy on jw.org says under point 7:

Personal data will not be transferred between branches unless necessary to accomplish the religious or charitable purposes of the organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses, to which all Jehovah’s Witnesses have consented by virtue of their free and willing decision to become and identify themselves as Jehovah’s Witnesses.

A person consents to become a JW by getting baptized and gives right to the WT to collect and maintain data about him. So, technically, how does a JW withdraw his consent? By writing a letter of DA or by getting DF'ed?

So if a person just stops going to the meetings without getting DA'ed or DF'ed, can he still ask the WT to erase data on him?

127

PORTUGAL: Filed a petition to the parliament to erase the legal entity of the Jehovah's Witness

by EdenOne in

based on legal arguments that revolve around violations of several articles of the portuguese constitution, and of the law of religious freedom, a petition to the portuguese parliament has been set in motion to extinguish the legal entity that represents the jehovah's witness in portugal and remove this community from the national register of recognized religions protected by law.

the petition does not seek to ban the jehovah's witness as a whole in the country.

the petition denounces the institutional policy of shunning former members as a violation of basic human rights and psychological torture, and asks the portuguese legislators and judicial authorities to take action to stop this abuse, and suspend legal recognition to the branch office entity until the policies of shunning are changed.

Drearyweather

Hi EdenOne, Some questions came to my mind after reading your conversation with Simon:

I can count myself lucky - the family on my side hasn't cut me off.So no, it's not about ME

In an earlier post you mentioned that it is easy to prove that shunning policy of JW's are violating human rights because you have testimonials of you and your family as proof of it. But now you say that your family doesn't shun you and hence the petition is not about you?

Try explaining that to this teenage girl of 16 years old whose parents threw her out of the house because she committed "fornication" with a "worldly" boyfriend.

The problem with this example is there are many non-JW's would react the same and there are many cases where people throw their children out and cut-off contact with them. JW's are a minority group, hence the cases of JW's shunning their family members are way much much lesser than other religions or non-religious people who shun and even harm and torture their family members for wrongdoing.

In India, there are some states where people still believe in honor killing, where parents will even kill their adult children if they marry outside their caste. A 16 year old, fornicating? The entire family will be cast out and will be hounded for the rest of their lives.

It's about many thousands of people who have been screwed up by shunning and everything that it entails.

Thousands of lives screwed. But not one court case to back up the petition? Or Am I wrong?

So, I decided to do SOMETHING.

I don't want to question your intentions. Let's assume that the WT in Portugal gets de-registered as a legal entity. But, history has shown that GB has never changed any core policies like shunning when any country has banned them. There are countries where JW's are under ban, but policies are the same.

You said that you want the WT to be legally de-registered but individuals should have the right to continue as JW's. So, what if individual JW's continue to shun their family members even if their entity is deregistered? So would you have the law punish them? JW's would stop shunning only if their GB tells them to do so, not if any any country or any law tells them.

17

Does praying really matter? Where is the evidence?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

matthew 7:7 jesus says: ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

for every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.

or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone?

Drearyweather

Does Praying Really Matter?

Yes. It makes a person feel better, and that's what is important. A believer praying to God is like an ex-JW yelling or shouting at a JW Witnessing Cart. No Impact whatsoever in both, but it makes you feel better.

Where is the evidence?

It really depends on what you want to see as an evidence. A divorcee/single mom with two kids does two jobs a day to support herself and to keep her kids in school. She prays to God to give her strength to face the problems of her life. What evidence do you want to see if her prayers are being answered?

10

JW Funeral Talk Outline

by Phizzy in

hi all,.

a friend has a jw funeral coming up and wants some input if possible, so a copy of the latest outline would be invaluable to him when he talks to the elders, another question he and his brother, neither now jw's, wish to give a eulogy, is this allowed ?.

any advice will be greatly appreciated..

Drearyweather

so a copy of the latest Outline would be invaluable to him when he talks to the Elders

Can't post the latest Outline (12/16), but following are four main headings:

REMARKS REGARDING THE DECEASED

WE NEED COMFORT AT TIMES OF LOSS

THE BIBLE GIVES A HOPE FOR THE DEAD

HOW WE CAN BENEFIT FROM BEING HERE

he and his brother, neither now JW's, wish to give a eulogy, is this allowed ?

Following are the instructions from the latest outline:

. Adapt the material to match the circumstances of the deceased and the needs of grieving ones. While not overpraising the deceased, you may use events from his life throughout the talk to show how those in attendance can benefit from his example. Use good balance in this regard. You may choose to arrange a well-rehearsed interview with a brother in good standing who knew the deceased well. Any use of humor should be moderate. The dignity of the occasion should be preserved. The talk need not exceed 30 minutes. Do not invite the audience to make expressions about the deceased, as this could introduce inappropriate or unscriptural elements into the program.

20

When did Watchtower writings start becoming anonymous?

by Wild_Thing in

jw
friends

i think most people know that authorship was credited in the old watchtower literature, but at some point everything became anonymous.

i still do not know exactly when this started, but i found this in charles taze russell's last will and testament.

his will was not honored in other respects, so i doubt they would have honored this request.

Drearyweather

Children (published in 1941) was the last book which credited the writer as JF Rutherford.

After Rutherford's death and starting with the book- The New World (published in 1942) writings became anonymous.

48

2018 Convention videos leaked by brave insiders

by Room 215 in

jw
friends

anopther coup for cedars: http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/leaked-2018-convention-videos-celebrate-anti-lgbtq-bigotry-unquestioning-obedience-doomsday-fear-mongering

Drearyweather

I won't say that a insider from Warwick has leaked the videos. All the video files (unfinished) have also been sent to all the RTO and Remote translators (some as early in November 2017) and video teams across the globe for translation and audio recordings. At this time thousands of JW's across the globe already have these videos and it is pretty much easy for Cedars to get a copy.

3

Photo Drama of Creation

by jaydee in

g-day all,.... i've watched on youtube, 'warwick: a journey to my former faith'.

and at 25.33 re the photo drama...it is mentioned that,.

it was the first major screen play to incorporate film.....blah blah blah.... back in 1914, this effort must have been a great piece of propaganda ,.

Drearyweather

But now, I am not so sure it was quite as unique as first thought..Have you heard of the film made by the Salvation Army Called Soldiers of the Cross....?

To my knowledge, rather than being a feature film, Soldiers of the Cross was a multi media media presentation with slides, short vignettes and a spoken lecture.

However, Photo Drama was a major screenplay which synchronized sound with motion picture (moving film) and color slides. In this, Photo Drama was unique in its time.

18

Is it ethical to have children?

by joey jojo in

this was a news article recently in an australian newspaper that caught my eye.. the premise was that to have a child is to inflict an extra human being onto the world and also, to inflict the world (with all its problems) onto the child.. there is a lot to say about this but from jw point of view, i have always believed it to be incredibly hypocritical that jw's have children in 'this system'.

all my life at the meeting i heard how little time we have left, how sick the world is, how i was probably going to be persecuted and end up in a jail cell for being a jw.

why would anyone want to become parents in this situation, particularly if they are confident there is only 'a short time left'?.

Drearyweather

The premise was that to have a child is to inflict an extra human being onto the world and also, to inflict the world (with all its problems) onto the child.

Strange. People on this board have been telling that the world is getting better. So I say that this is the right time in history to have kids.

Why would anyone want to become parents in this situation, particularly if they are confident there is only 'a short time left'?

Because, JW's believe that "a short time is left" for Satan and his wicked world, not JW's. Hence, if they have kids, they would go in the new world with them.

Surely bringing children into a world like this is being completely and utterly irresponsible if you are a JW

Telling someone that they should stop having kids because they believe that the world is bad is like telling me to stop eating food because I believe that obesity in the world is increasing. Or telling people to stop going out of their homes altogether because road accident deaths are increasing.