Posts by Drearyweather

45

Will the Watchtower Company in the near future start asking for a tithe?

by Sour Grapes in

it appears that the borg has some financial issues and i would think they are related to the hush money being paid out for the child molestation lawsuits to protect the guilty cult members and the fine untarnished reputation of the jdubs.. we have seen how much the borg refers to the hebrew scriptures for their guiding principles whenever it suits the borg's needs.

tithing certainly is laced throughout the old testament.

under the mosaic law, there were three tithes.

Drearyweather

The topic was discussed 10 years ago:

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/165457/would-they-ever-attempt-introduce-tithing

And we will discuss it 10 years from now. Let's see when it happens.

14

Jehovah`s Witnesses / Parasites On Christendom ,they need to thank them for the membership they have today.

by smiddy3 in

jehovah`s witnesses claim that all their beliefs are based on the bible.the bible clearly states early on in deut.4:2 not to add to the word....and rev.22:18 re-iterates much the same thing in not to make additions to the word of god.. i think we could agree on that the organization has raised the bar on that one with their "weasel" words on so many issues that have already been thrashed out on this forum.. so a few other things that come to my mind are : with regards to j.w`s being parasites on christendom.. 1. they claim christendom apostatized itself from true christianity by the 3rd century , yet they accept apostate christendoms determination of what books are to be included in the bible as gods word as if they were governed by holy spirit to do so.?.

2.jehovah`s witnesses have only ever followed in christendoms missionaries footsteps where they have gone preaching and poaching off of the work these missionaries that have laid the groundwork before them .. 3.jehovah`s witnesses have never opened up virgin territory and gone where no other christian missionary has ever gone before .

{ not to my knowledge anyway i stand to be corrected if i am wrong on this point}.

Drearyweather

The Watchtower /Jehovah`s Witnesses believe and teach that the Apostasy began by the time the last Apostle died around 100 AD

To clarify, JW's believe:

1. That apostasy had started even before the apostles died and it increased after 100 AD

2. All books of the new testament were written before 100 AD, or before the great apostasy. No writer was an apostate.

3. St. Clement of Rome, who died in 99 AD, was already quoting from the gospels and the Pauline letters (95 quotes from the 10 of 27 books)

4. Early writers from the first century, Polycarp, Ignatius have quoted from the new testament books, which show that they were already accepted as canonical by Christians in the first century.

Jehovah`s Witnesses accept the word of Apostates who determined what books are to be accepted in the Christian Greek Scriptures NT

In fact, it was the other way round. It was the 'apostates' who questioned the canonicity of certain books of the NT like Hebrews, 2 Peter, James, 2 & 3 John etc throughout the second and the third century whereas these books were already being used by Christians in the first and second century. Questions regarding which books of the Bible should be included in the canon were not fully settled till 16th Century and later (Council of Trent).

Regarding this, a comment was made by NT scholar Lee Martin McDonald: "Although a number of Christians have thought that church councils determined what books were to be included in the biblical canons, a more accurate reflection of the matter is that the councils recognized or acknowledged those books that had already obtained prominence from usage among the various early Christian communities."

As it says, the apostates simply acknowledged the canon which was used by Christians in the first century. In many cases, they questioned some of these authentic books down to the 15th Century.

If JW's accepted the apostates word, then they wouldn't have removed the Apocrypha and the spurious texts from the NT. Neither would they have added the name Jehovah to the NT.

14

Jehovah`s Witnesses / Parasites On Christendom ,they need to thank them for the membership they have today.

by smiddy3 in

jehovah`s witnesses claim that all their beliefs are based on the bible.the bible clearly states early on in deut.4:2 not to add to the word....and rev.22:18 re-iterates much the same thing in not to make additions to the word of god.. i think we could agree on that the organization has raised the bar on that one with their "weasel" words on so many issues that have already been thrashed out on this forum.. so a few other things that come to my mind are : with regards to j.w`s being parasites on christendom.. 1. they claim christendom apostatized itself from true christianity by the 3rd century , yet they accept apostate christendoms determination of what books are to be included in the bible as gods word as if they were governed by holy spirit to do so.?.

2.jehovah`s witnesses have only ever followed in christendoms missionaries footsteps where they have gone preaching and poaching off of the work these missionaries that have laid the groundwork before them .. 3.jehovah`s witnesses have never opened up virgin territory and gone where no other christian missionary has ever gone before .

{ not to my knowledge anyway i stand to be corrected if i am wrong on this point}.

Drearyweather

My thoughts:

1. They claim Christendom Apostatized itself from true Christianity by the 3rd Century , yet they accept Apostate Christendoms determination of what books are to be included in the Bible as Gods word as if they were governed by Holy Spirit to do so.?

The canon of the Hebrew scriptures was fixed even before Jesus' was born. and the New Testament books were finalized by 180 CE (the Muratorian Fragment),. So the JW's believe that the canon was determined much before the Councils of the third century Roman Catholic Church.

2.Jehovah`s Witnesses have only ever followed in Christendoms Missionaries footsteps where they have gone preaching and poaching off of the work these missionaries that have laid the groundwork before them .

The problem is the starting point. Christendom had 1500 years to them before JW's started. Any religion or sect or cult that started in the 1800's had the same problem. There was vrtually no place where Christendom had not reached.

On another note, most of the Christendom history of the dark ages is filled with bloodshed, violence, inquisition, and crusades. So I would not say that JW's or any other cult followed their footsteps. And the fact that many people join these cults is that that previous religion did not do a good job in retaining them. And that's the business model of a religion. Even Jesus converted Jews to Christianity. that's how religions grow.

4. The average rank & file JW likes to think that Jehovah`s Witnesses are the only ones that use the name Jehovah.Little do they realise that not only the Bible they use was established by the Catholic Church but also the name of God Jehovah was also. By a Spanish Catholic Monk in the 13th Century by adding vowels to the four letters of Hebrew {Tetragrammaton} translated by him as JHVH and coming up with the name Jehovah.

It seems that the name Jehovah had come up even before the Catholic usage in the 13th Century. Following is the comment made in the part "Jehovah" in the Catholic Encyclopedia:

the word is found even in the "Pugio fidei" of Raymund Martin, a work written about 1270 (ed. Paris, 1651, pt. III, dist. ii, cap. iii, p. 448, and Note, p. 745). Probably the introduction of the name Jehovah antedates even R. Martin.

https://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=6291

5.The Catholic Church and Christendoms Protestant religions have been using that name ever since the 13th Century in writings ,engraved on Churches and with biblical scholars throughout the world down to this day.

And that is what irks me. If you can use the name on buildings and other writings, why did you remove it from the Bible?? Only 1 or 2 instances in some of the authorized Bibles?? The name of God was to be used in worship. There is no point in having the names high up on buildings and in scholarly and academic writings, but removing it from the Bible, which was the primary tool for worship for the common masses. If Jehovah was not the right pronunciation of the name, then why use Jesus, Joshua, Jeremiah, etc? Since they are also not the way Hebrews pronounced them.

42

JWs line up to have Gov. Body members autograph bibles.

by blownaway in

i was watching some of the videos on line and marc and cora had one where they said that after zone talks the gov body members would autograph bibles.

anyone have any video of this?.

Drearyweather

3 days into this, and still no evidence (photo or video) of JW's lining up to to get autographs of GB members on their Bibles or books.

2

What does a disgellowshi person at kh have in common with a Japanese prison

by poopie in

jw
friends

no talking allowed..

Drearyweather

disgellowshi

You used this word the second time. Is that the Japanese language term for disfellowshipped?

36

2018 Regional Convention program available on JW.borg

by sir82 in

jw
friends

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/convention-program-2018/.

friday.

be courageous and very strong”—joshua 1:7

Drearyweather

Is it the first time that the program was not leaked here before it came on JW.org?

8

Friends: Jehovah's Witnesses shunning drove Keego Harbor mom to murder-suicide

by adjusted knowledge in

jw
friends

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/02/19/keego-harbor-jehovahs-witness-mom-triple-murder-suicide/351559002/.

Drearyweather

The tragedy sent longtime family friend Joyce Taylor reeling as she and others say they believe the murder-suicide was the result of shunning by the Jehovah's Witnesses. According to Taylor and several other former Jehovah's Witnesses

In the above line, the ex-JW friend believes that shunning drove her to do suicide and murder.

But then, few lines below the article also says:

Taylor, who last saw her friend a week before she was found dead, said she doesn't know exactly what drove her friend over the edge. She believes that her friend was battling some kind of personal problem, but felt so alone in the world because of being ostracized by her former religious community that she did what she did.

Would need to wait on the actual investigations of the case rather than simply believing the words of ex-members who may attribute all bad happenings to the shunning policy.

12

Everything I once knew as a JW, is now wrong.

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

just had 2 nice witnesses at the door.

without boring you with all the to-ing and fro-ing.

i invented a friend who became a witness back in the early 1950s, this friend tried to get me to become a witness, because his teachers father (a leader in that congregation) told him that the big a was coming in 5 years (which was true).

Drearyweather

fulltimestudent,

Your title says,

Everything I once knew as a JW, is now wrong.

and at the end of your post you say:

lots of what I used to teach (and believe) is no longer true.

34

Impact of GDPR on WT HQ and EU branches?

by respectful_observer in

curious if any of our eu-based members (especially those still in) have heard anything from official wt channels on how the organisation plans to be in compliance with gdpr ("general data protection regulations") by may 2018?

it's my understanding that religious organisations must comply, and that religious data is treated a "protected" and therefore subject to some enhance requirements.. specifically, how will they comply with the following requirements:.

you must disclose to the individual: what data you collect on them, why, and what you do with the data (including what other parties receive the data and what they do with it).

Drearyweather

Prior to a person's consenting to share information, the organization must be clear about what they will do with their private data. I don't think any JW is informed on the day of his baptism that such a thing takes place.

During baptism, a JW is well aware the the elders have collected his personal data on the Publisher Record Card. He even gets to see it if he wants too. In fact it is the publisher who gives the data to them. What elders and the CO's do with the card is explained in the OD book which the publisher has access to. Now, it would be a valid point if the publisher can prove that his data is being used for purposes other than what it was intended for.

After that, whether it be Auxiliary Pioneering, Regular Pio, or Bethel Service, the individual himself fills up all the forms and submits it to the elders or to the society. In most of these forms the WT has mentioned a line whereby the applicant promises to cooperate with all the legal corporations of the WT and thus gives a consent that he allows the WT to use his personal data.

If the law demands, the WT will revise its policies in this, but I am not sure if WT has been doing or collecting data illegally.

For e.g. In India, in some places where anti-conversion law exists, before getting baptized, publishers prepare a legal affidavit stating that they are leaving their former religion and becoming JW;s at their own will and submit the document to the local authorities and the congregation.

So I presume WT would do the same in the EU, to save themselves from legal worries.

However, I feel it would be naive to say that a JW doesn't know that the Org maintains personal data about him.

34

Impact of GDPR on WT HQ and EU branches?

by respectful_observer in

curious if any of our eu-based members (especially those still in) have heard anything from official wt channels on how the organisation plans to be in compliance with gdpr ("general data protection regulations") by may 2018?

it's my understanding that religious organisations must comply, and that religious data is treated a "protected" and therefore subject to some enhance requirements.. specifically, how will they comply with the following requirements:.

you must disclose to the individual: what data you collect on them, why, and what you do with the data (including what other parties receive the data and what they do with it).

Drearyweather

What if the individual demand the "Right to be Forgotten" and all written evidence of them ever being a member wiped from congregation and WT files?

Interesting.

The first two points under article 17 says that the data should be erased unless,

1. the personal data are no longer necessary in relation to the purposes for which they were collected or otherwise processed;

2. the data subject withdraws consent on which the processing is based according to point (a) of Article 6(1), or point (a) of Article 9(2), and where there is no other legal ground for the processing;

the Data protection policy on jw.org says under point 7:

Personal data will not be transferred between branches unless necessary to accomplish the religious or charitable purposes of the organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses, to which all Jehovah’s Witnesses have consented by virtue of their free and willing decision to become and identify themselves as Jehovah’s Witnesses.

A person consents to become a JW by getting baptized and gives right to the WT to collect and maintain data about him. So, technically, how does a JW withdraw his consent? By writing a letter of DA or by getting DF'ed?

So if a person just stops going to the meetings without getting DA'ed or DF'ed, can he still ask the WT to erase data on him?